Forum
Serious Question
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ThraxIeisgay wrote
at 3:20 PM, Monday December 6, 2010 EST
Republicans and Democrats aren't that different, they're both deluded but in different ways. Republicans are deluded into believing or professing farces, while Democrats are deluded into believing people might act rationally. Ultimately the fortune 500 companies and the millionaires who fund our politicians have all the power and they will get what they want (Reaganomics makes no fucking sense).
So to all the diehard Republicans out there I pose you this question: Would you rather have Obama be the President for the next 6 years OR would you rather have had Bush for another two terms? |
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ThraxIeisgay wrote
at 6:36 PM, Monday December 6, 2010 EST I'll tell you what TBY, here's an unbiased source, google:
http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=usunemployment&met=unemployment_rate&tdim=true&dl=en&hl=en&q=unemployment+rate As you can see Bush took unemployment from 4.7% to 8.5%, whereas so far under Obama it's gone from 8.5% to 9.3%. And Rob the point isn't that Obama is somehow amazing at creating jobs, the point is that Bush completely ruined the economy which poses a stark contrast to what Obama has done. |
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TheBetterYodel wrote
at 6:40 PM, Monday December 6, 2010 EST Cherry picking numbers eh?
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ThraxIeisgay wrote
at 6:46 PM, Monday December 6, 2010 EST I like how you resort to ad hominem when evidence is irrefutable.
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Thraxle wrote
at 6:50 PM, Monday December 6, 2010 EST Unemployment is at 9.8% and projected to go above 10%. He's done nothing for jobs and has the private sector so scared that they're hoarding cash with no reinvestment into the business world.
Fear is an amazing emotion, and nobody does fear like Obama. Bush inherited his own recession in the early 2000's, especially after 9/11 occured. He got things on track with an absolute boom in the mid-2000's, it just wasn't sustainable. The deregulation should have never happened (which was accomplished by the GOP), but the GOP tried to reinstate regulations which were blocked by the Dems. Thus the housing debacle. Thus the recession. Blame Bush all you want. Obama sure does. Of course, he has nothing better to say most days. |
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kdiceplaya! wrote
at 7:01 PM, Monday December 6, 2010 EST All people are subjectively rational.
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superxchloe wrote
at 7:03 PM, Monday December 6, 2010 EST &I like how you resort to skewing statistics... You yourself said it wasn't fair to judge Obama by 1/4th of his term... By this point in the Bush administration, unemployment had gone from 4.7% to 5.7%. Bush's average change in monthly employment over his term is +0.04 where Obama's is... +0.04.
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superxchloe wrote
at 7:19 PM, Monday December 6, 2010 EST We could also compare rates based on what party controls congress, which some people may believe is more important. During Bush's term, the Senate was controlled by Democrats for his first two years. Republicans controlled the Senate for 4 years, then for his final two years, Democrats regained control. Republicans held the House the first 6 years and Democrats the last 2.
During the only point in time that Democrats held a majority in both houses of congress, unemployment went from 5.1 to 8.5 percent. Democrats maintained this majority during Obama's first two years, during which unemployment increased further to 9.3 percent. During the time the GOP had control of both houses (Bush's middle 4 years), unemployment went from 6.3 to 5.0 percent. |
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detenmile wrote
at 7:20 PM, Monday December 6, 2010 EST taking a non statistical and uncharacteristically anecdotal approach to this issue. I and or my family are very close friends with about 7 small buisness owners (5-about 90 employees). Partially due to new federal laws and regulations, and partially due to new Oregonian laws and regulations, and partially due to affermative action bullshit. these small companies have been unable to rehire about 70% of the manpower they have had to lay off in the last 2 years. (about 15 jobs). Anyway as far as I have seen things, Obama isnt doing us any favors in the job sector.
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detenmile wrote
at 7:21 PM, Monday December 6, 2010 EST also chloe is a smart girl and usually right (like her last post). Don't argue with her.
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ThraxIeisgay wrote
at 8:06 PM, Monday December 6, 2010 EST While that's all rather interesting Chloe I don't profess any party affiliation (maybe just an antagonism to a certain party) so I'm not really considered as much with the efficacy of congress and what particular split of government it's operating under. I am more considered with the Congress's agenda and consequently the President who sets this agenda. The tax rate for the wealthiest of our nation was roughly 70% before Reagan. By the end of his second term this rate was about 40%. Here's my source if you don't believe me:
http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=usunemployment&met=unemployment_rate&tdim=true&dl=en&hl=en&q=unemployment+rate I honestly don't understand what basis 'fiscal conservatism' has, since by definition that would mean hiking up the tax rate for the wealthy. But I guess that's not what the Republicans had in mind when they held the START treaty and unemployment benefits hostage this past week. By the way this rate used to be 90% under Eisenhower and Kennedy. My point is this Chloe: Congress is never looked upon favorably, but Congress's agenda is set by the President. The President decides what the issues of our day are, along with the media. Ultimately this results in what laws congress produces or enacts and ultimately this was my qualm with Bush. Furthermore if you're going to play the statistics game about who controlled congress as it relates to our prosperity why don't you try looking a little farther back than the joke of an administration we had for the start of this decade. And if you didn't realize that the right wing was behind the housing bubble 4 years ago let me be the first to enlighten you as to how election cycles work. The Bush administration's economic policies were faltering (or at least they weren't as effective as Clinton and Reagan's) so in order to boost the economy they created the insecure mortgages that eventually lead to the housing market crash. That and a few other tricks... this however was unmaintainable and eventually lead the the recession we are in now. |