blondes_win:

I am a Republican, and I wasn't claiming that Obamacare has death panels. I was advocating death panals as a part of a government-funded health care program provided free to people who can't afford health care in the private sector. In short, free health care and free death panels.

i would like to thank jp for expressing my opinion in this thread, bc i really did not feel like taking the time to rehash the same argument i always get into with thrax in these threads

>i dont know if obama's administration saved the auto industry. ford came out the strongest and most improved

To monte - come on, stop being such a tool. Ford came out strongest because they got huge loans before the recession started. I don't know if it was luck or foresight, but the government played no factor in them coming ahead (or behind).

>Actually, the general consensus

To verms - Actually, you have no evidence of this general consensus.

> 4. If all else fails just say it was Bush's idea.

> The Iraq timeline WAS BUSH'S IDEA......please prove otherwise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Mission_Accomplished_Speech

2010 does not equal 2003.

fcuku-

you're welcome.

"Did you really say "not progressive enough"? What would you suggest for our fair country then?"

-actual universal health care for our citizens
-legalize gay marriage
-repeal don't ask don't tell

these would be some major ones, yes?

btw Mexico's Supreme Court just enforced the validity of their gay marriages throughout the country. Good job, country of r0ns.
Sucks we're behind Mexico in the "basic human rights" competition.

Cherry-picking one specific item, and using it to say we are behind a country as far as human rights go, is just a poor argument.

Maybe you can find a ranking source that puts Mexico ahead of the USA as far as human rights goes, but I couldn't find one (not that I spent more than five minutes in the magical interwebs):
http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=546&year=2010
http://www.mherrera.org/world.htm

Please, people, make your arguments cleanly and less biased. Assuming someone watches Fox News and then bashing them for it is just an ad hominem attack - it does not strengthen your argument. The same goes for the liberal = dumb kid argument, or any other stick-em-in-a-group-and-then-denigrate-the-group attack.

Calling the opposition names does not strengthen your argument. Overstating your case only gives the other person the chance to disagree with the exaggeration, rather than respond to the point you were truly trying to make.

I agree with jp that Obama has indeed done a lot since he's been in office, but I disagree that all of them are good. In fact, given the number of things any President does in any year, I'm personally highly skeptical of anyone who thinks everything they did is all good or all bad.

Personally, one item I really loathe was when Obama politicized the leadership of the census. I'm not sure why anyone would think that is a good thing.

"The moment we want to believe something, we suddenly see all the arguments for it, and become blind to the arguments against it." - GB Shaw

The US-Iraq SOFA, which establishes not August 2010 but June 30, 2010 as the date for withdrawl was approved by the Iraqi government in 2008, before Obama was sworn in.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.-Iraq_Status_of_Forces_Agreement

obviously we don't have worse human rights than mexico, verms. twas a joke.

I stopped reading after the 3rd page because the whole thread is going like this.

Thrax: BO sucks as President

Socialists: Stop listening to conservative hype and come listen to our hype.

Now you socialists are going to wonder why I don't use the misnomer "liberals" with your tag. It's because you are not actually for liberating anything or making anything but things more liberal for GOVERNMENT. It is well known that government oppresses the people. Therefor I cannot with good conscience call a socialist a liberal. It's like calling a DEA agent a defender of the peace....Just doesn't fly when you know all the facts.