ok ok there's obviously plenty I could argue about with you Rob, and maybe you're just trolling for the lolz but the fact that you would vote for Palin over Obama is just hilarious. I mean, go for it, but that's just fucking delusional.

However the point like this:

"-improved our foreign policy, and the global view of the US (inclduing Iran)

Yeah, he sucked plenty of dick on his "bow to everyone" tour. Shame that they are actually laughing AT him and not WITH him."

You've said something along these lines multiple times in multiple threads. Please please please tell me you don't actually feel this way. I mean, its alarmingly ignorant. Like, just because fox news splices together a few clips of Obama being polite can't possibly elicit the response that he was being submissive or weak.

We could bicker about policy and interpretation of law forever I'm sure. But a stance like above is just overwhelmingly stupid. Please tell me you're just trolling.

Nice list JP. Unfortunately there are some definite opinions in there where "check" shouldn't apply.

As far as foreign relations go, I really don't give a fuck about our governments relationship with the rest of the world right now. There are far too many pressing issues here, in OUR country, to be worrying about everyone else in the world.

The auto bailout is an opinion.

The tax cuts are not sustainable by any measure of the imagination, Obama spends too much.

Probably 7-10 of the things you list are very, VERY minor.

Defend his spending...

Defend the job market...

Defend the economy in a way other than saying "he saved it", because he didn't.....or hasn't yet, if he ever will.

Defend the lack of growth...

Defend something I care about other than vehicle emissions, medicinal marijuana, and a hate crimes bill.

"Saved the entire stock market from collapsing (from a low point of a dow of 6000 within a month of Obama taking office, to close to 11,000 just an year later, basically preventing millions of retirement accounts from getting wiped out) - Check"

I mean c'mon, that statement is laughable. Please remember, it was a Democratic Congress the last 4 years of Bush.....including the guy in office right now. You guys blame Bush's wreckless spending as the cause of the recession, but then praise Obama's spending which is much more reckless than Bush's.

And I'm not fucking trolling when I say I'd vote for Palin before Obama, but it doesn't matter because she won't be running. Obama is fundamentally changing this country and it's showing no signs of doing any good. I've asked this before, but I'll ask again. How long does he get to be in office before these are HIS problems. How long do his policies have to be in place for us to say this is HIS government/economy/job market.

He calls the GOP the party of NO, yet he doesn't even need them to pass most of his agendas. Why is he bitching then? You put together a laundry list of shit he's passed, so why the grandstanding? The reason why is because that's what he does......stirs the pot. That was his job for about 20 years. When will you begin to claim his shortcomings with the same zeal as you claim his meager contributions?

So if you don't care about foreign policy, stop saying ignorant shit about it.

I didn't write that list, so if the language is too grandstanding for you, so be it. Just annoyed by the whole "he hasn't done anything" whining.

I talk plenty about things Obama hasn't done yet. However, on Kdice my input usually only consists of responding to stupid wrong shit - or arguing with you. No one asked what I think he's done wrong, but it would be silly to not at least begrudge me the opportunity to defend the man.

However, my issues with his presidency so far are probably on the other spectrum - not progressive enough. But I'm willing to let the 4 years play out before rushing to condemnation.

Saying he's "fundamentally" changed this country is at best an overused exaggeration for effect and at worst the reactionary misinformed regurgitation of Fox and Friends lies.

and what lack of growth are you referring to, out of curiosity?

I mean this was widely-circulated back in april: http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/04/03/job-growth-improves-under-obama-as-bush-recession-continues/

but I fail to see how the job growth in this country hasn't happened.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38593234/ns/business-eye_on_the_economy/

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t10.htm

I don't know where the jobs are either, but the spending doesn't match the growth and we don't have room to play in our deficit spending. He shoving all sorts of programs through Congress with no way to sustainably pay for them. Where is all the waste going and why isn't there any accountability for the spending.

Believe me Pierce, I don't want another 2-1/2 years of shitty economy while I'm in my prime. So contrary to popular belief I am actually rooting for things to turn around......they just aren't yet. Clinton did well with a Republican Congress, maybe it's time for you to vote the GOP in this fall.

Did you really say "not progressive enough"? What would you suggest for our fair country then?

The Republican COngress made Clinton great

for starters, sorry for posting every couple days. I am trying to quit kdice but I am still coming back everyone once in a while.


I really think that these arguments really are affiliated with hat party we are associated with. Health Care is a perfect example

Republicans view Obamacare as legislation that is just spending money. Also, for some reason they are convinced that "Death Panels" are involved in it somewhere. This is a total myth fueled by Fox News and Sarah Palin.

Democrats (and excuse me if I am biased) see that Obamacare may bring a deficit for a couple years, but eventually save Americans money.
However, that is not why I support Universal Health Care. Obamacare increases the standard of living in the US. It is our duty not just as citizens, but also as human beings to help those that can't help themselves.


To clear up the Guantanamo Bay thing, Guantanamo Bay was NOT closed, but the torture camp inside was.
Blondes: "closed the torture camp in Guantanamo"
Sorry if that statement was not clear enough, I thought the "in" would suffice.


Global Outlook/Foreign Policy

I understand that republicans what the US's image to be "some big macho country that doesn't take shit from anyone". This is unrealistic. The US is not free from attacks from weaker countries. 9/11 is a good example of a weak nation that hated us, getting even.
I personally think it is fine for Obama to "suck dick" to ensure American safety from future attacks.
I understand that kissing China's ass is not cool. I hate Chinese politics. They are a good example of bad communism. However, it is practical to have respectful relations with them. The same goes for Russia.


Afghanistan vs. Iraq
Bush was fighting the wrong war. If he wanted to take out an evil dictator, go to North Korea. I hope you all remember that he attacked Iraq BASED ON FALSE DATA.
Afghanistan is one of the largest drug producing countries in the world (along with Colombia and Mexico). It also was a huge threat to our ally Pakistan and has much more powerful terrorist organizations.


Green Jobs, not private sector

I am sorry if funding nuclear energy and wind energy is not private sector. I personally believe that nuclear energy is the answer to the US's energy crisis, but I am no expert. I just know that Bush's oil addiction needs to go.


Timetable for the Overseas Contingency Operation
After he fired McChrystal he set the 1 year timetable in to effect. I would call that pretty recent and original. Even if Bush did come up with it, he never put it in to effect.


North Korea and Iran
Obama is not being a pussy when he deals with them. He is being practical. More seven party discussions are occurring and more action is taking place in the UN. What I am really trying to say Vermont is that for once, China and Russia are on our side when it comes to these sanctions, and things are finally being done.


Nuclear Disarmament treaty
Yes the cold war is over, but when the US and Russia have 90% of the world's nuclear warheads I think it would be nice to take precaution to prevent future nuclear Armageddon. I know that is a total overstatement, but whatever. I hate nuclear warheads in general and don't think Hiroshima and Nagasaki was justifiable.
Nuclear warheads, like land mines don't kill just one, specific target. They are partially designed for "total war". Killing the innocent is never justifiable.



I will make this my last post because we all know that this will never end, and personally, it is not that I love Obama. I just hate republicans more. Personally, if I could go back, I would vote Clinton over Obama.

actually, I think kehoe is right. I will never be able to quit this site unless you ban me. Thrax, you are welcome to do that, I am totally cool with it. It is nothing dramatic, I am just too addicted to kdice

Intervention.