Forum
does kdice need more punishment from mods?
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the full monte wrote
at 2:49 PM, Thursday December 4, 2008 EST
this is a serious discussion.
i check out kdice.com/advisorLog about once a week, and have been pleased to see how active the xsketch mod Lei is in punishing cheating over in xsketch land. fairly frequently you will see an entire page of advisorLog filled with him catching people who write answers, who share answers over instant messaging, or people who abuse the chatbox or username choice. and he bans the annoying username people several times in a row as soon as they create new alts. i applaud this effort. i havent been to xsketch recently, but im sure Lei's vigor has a positive influence on the community. i played a few days of gpokr this month, and was pleased to see that the community there also realizes the punishment of cheating. when i used to play a long time ago, it was commonplace to transfer winnings between alt accounts. apparently that has now been deemed a punishable offense (makes sense), and people only transfer winnings as discretely as possible because they know they will lose all of the winnings if a mod catches them doing it. what im concerned with in kdice is that the mods dont (or arent allowed to) punish pga. i guess the reasoning is that it's too much of a grey area defining when play is pga and when it isnt. in my experience with kdice recently, the only people being punished are the chatbox abusers / forum abusers / username abusers. if you look at advisorLog, xsketch has far more moderation than kdice, as does gpokr. but arent there more kdice players than gpokr and xsketch combined? perhaps there are less kdice cheaters, maybe thats it. anyways, it would be nice to see some new mods (stfu johnson, i dont want to be a mod), who commit more energy to punishing cheating in kdice, not just racism/language/forum idiocy. i really appreciate the current mods, i.e. skrum, who gives us pro bono all these intriguing statistical analyses. grunvagr has all but disappeared. so now it seems Ryan is the only one holding down the fort in kdice. and its tough for him to do that when he's got 3 communities continuously bitching at him every time he tries to implement a positive change in his code. (i couldnt believe how many gpokr players were bitching about some phantom ante bug, instead of constructively helping explain why it was happening and how to fix it.) anyways, i feel we need more active mods here in kdice, and i feel they should be given the power to punish clear and admitted pgas. i believe there are some unbiased and fair people in the community who would do a good job. thoughts? trolls? |
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wishbone wrote
at 9:53 AM, Saturday December 6, 2008 EST i thought digdug was from england..... and also sup bmd. I retired, and don't play anymore.
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XCRobin wrote
at 11:26 AM, Saturday December 6, 2008 EST @Brian's "I think Fiero, Monte, and Cody are amongst the most knowledgeable about who is cheating. They should all be mods."
Fiero was chosen to be a mod. He abused his power by banning people who were a threat to his friend from winning the month. He was stripped of his mod-powers. History shouldn't have to repeat itself in this case. Monte was one of the biggest cheaters in kdice history. Sure he says he reformed, but I'm not convinced. CoMik is one of the oldest players on this site, and one of the original PGA'ers. I don't know how much he PGA's anymore. Regardless, his knowledge of the cheating within kdice is from his close relationship with the other cheaters bigger than him. Honestly. They know the most about cheating and who does it because they were the most involved in it. The only other people missing from your mod list Leek, is integral, rnd, and yourself. |
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kdicefreak wrote
at 2:41 PM, Saturday December 6, 2008 EST look at those who were banned....if you side with them, then u r as bad as those jerks:
http://kdice.com/advisorLog |
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fiero600 wrote
at 5:09 PM, Saturday December 6, 2008 EST at Alan: I was asked to resign because i unbanned monte and helped him beat upmax, nothing else. If you review the forum, Ryan supported my bannings of the 10k cheaters helping nuflis and asked me only to unban them as a whole at the start of the next month. It was only after unbanning monte that ryan suggested i would enjoy the game more without the stress of being a mod. Please review the facts before you say things ignorantly towards me. Also, i have still yet to ever play with you and dont know who you are and/or why you are important. If you could please remind me of your great contributions to kdice (other than stalking sophalis with numerous phone calls and cyber stalking to the point of almost being arrested) i would appreciate it.
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JDizzle787 wrote
at 6:55 PM, Saturday December 6, 2008 EST Here's the truth: mods can't do shit without rules. Ryan has only said "PGAing is cheating" but whenever he or another advisor tries to punish it, everybody goes into a shitfit and tries to argue with him or someone else with who's really cheating, someone mentions leekstep, all this other non-related crap, and grudges are held.
So, if he does appoint a new legion of advisors (which he will have to do; there aren't enough active ones besides himself, only skrum and Jules Dogg) and give them clear guidelines on how to spot and what to look for in PGA, or any other undesired activity. This authority will have to be either mutually understandable between the community and the advisors, or be excruciatingly forced upon us, in order to create some sort of established respect. What's the point of mods taking care of cheating if no one takes them seriously? Now, I see a lot of initial problems with this (remember when Ryan announced his first set of advisors?), but I think that can be avoided if he does two things: A) Reiterates in the blog or a rules page or code of conduct thread or whatever that explains what is unacceptable. B) Appoints many, many more advisors. Why?: -People all around the world play kdice, so there must be enough advisors from all locales to be present at any time of day to report cheating. -With more advisors, it is understandable that a certain percentage of them will be on kdice more often then others (people have lives outside of kdice, believe it or not) This may seem obvious, but it's just how I see this becoming feasible for Ryan. Now, corruption is another factor that will have to be worked out. Ryan probably understood he wanted mods to help take care of all the b/s on kdice, but only hired a few of them that were respected by everybody so no one would create a huge controversy. I would really like to hear what Ryan thinks about this... |
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digdug wrote
at 9:49 AM, Sunday December 7, 2008 EST Alan,
Im not sure what your point for calling out knowledgeable cheaters is, but from what I have witnessed and participated in, you cheated in a higher percentage of games than anyone I have ever known. That means you would also probably be a good mod. You can recognize it better than most. |
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kdiceking* wrote
at 10:12 AM, Sunday December 7, 2008 EST yes making cheaters mods would be the greatest idea.
It's a fucking stupid idea kdice would be corrupt |
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digdug wrote
at 11:03 AM, Sunday December 7, 2008 EST kdiceking,
It wasnt until this year that Ryan decided PGA was cheating. We had months and months of PGAs and teams fighting for the top positions. If you didnt PGA then it was hard to consistently play at the top tables all month long. So it is easy to conclude that anyone who really new the game, anyone involved enough in the community in this time before Ryan changed his mind... all of those people were PGAers. I think Monte and Cody and Fiero have the potential to be great mods. Their behavior was an indication of the culture of kDice that Ryan created when he refused to deal with the PGA problem in the spring and summer of 2007. In the absence of any competent regulation by a competent commissioner or moderators, players would honor social relationships to compete against other players who were doing the same thing. Even after Ryan decided that PGA was cheating, there has yet to be any thorough and competent regulation of unfair behavior. Cody and Monte and Fiero were all just pushing the edge of the large amount of grey area of acceptable behavior that has NEVER BEEN DEFINED. Did they cheat? Heck yes! So did everyone else. I still think Cody and Monte and Fiero have the ability to be the best moderators. Are there any other recommendations? Maybe I am overlooking some people. I just don't think you can find a competent person to moderate that has never cheated. I could be wrong. kdiceking* and ryan are incompetent. They can't spot cheating when it happens, they incorrectly punish people who arent cheating, they just don't know kdice. And even worse, they choose to turn a blind eye at times when they know people are guilty, and assert themselves at other times. If you have any better suggestions than multiple mods such as Cody Monte and fiero I would like to hear it. Giving just one person the authority will result in relying on just one person's biases and observations. I agree that it was bad when fiero was the sole moderator trying to manage which cheating teams won the month. Maybe we would avoid that situation if there were more than one potentially competent moderator. |
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kdiceking* wrote
at 11:32 AM, Sunday December 7, 2008 EST Making some of the worst cheaters in kdice moderators still makes no sense. They would just abuse the powers within weeks.
And ryan hasn't even replied once so this whole topic is pointless as it will never happen |
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Grue wrote
at 11:50 AM, Sunday December 7, 2008 EST I think it's really hard to distinguish who is PGA. I never offer truces, but when someone avoids attacking me, I won't attack them too. So what if someone marks that as PGA? I think this could only be eliminated by changing the scoring system so that only the winner gets positive points (like in poker).
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