conquerclub.com uses pretty much exactly the feedback system you've mentioned monte (and others,) and it works great there. It would be a huge help here.

You can read about it here: http://www.conquerclub.com/public.php?mode=instructions5

Sometimes a concrete example of a working system goes a long way towards understanding the pros and cons.

i agree with ryan, and i think it's awesome that you are reading our posts. i hope you don't fall for the tricks people are playing in efforts become a mod, which is stupid!. i don't think a mod should be a top player, ever! unless you want to invite more corruption into your gaming site. I think there are some good top players, don't get me wrong...usually, the 'good' ones are generally quiet.
I also think that the top players get mixed messages abt their power or ability to influence the game. Just a few months ago, ryan you made a post saying that 99% of the kdice community don't cheat. You also went on to state that you talked to other players to see if they knew what was going on, and they all replied no. and that was your evidence that top players have little influence on the actual community. so is it that this influence has increased bc the tourney's cause players to have more interaction, or what? Im not trying to sound smart...im seriously asking for clarification. Seriously, i think that rules should be laid down. You're asking us to change, what do you want us to do? that's really all we need. The way the game is now, it's positive reinforcement to continue our style of gaming. so how do you fix it? we are telling you this bc we don't know what to do.

Johnson213, Yes, most people play the game in a good way and the majority don't care about the top players. This whole culture change doesn't have anything to do with the regular player. It's purely about the top players and the integrity of the competition. Most people aren't really competing for a top spot.

As a top player it should be your goal to get more respect for the competition. It's certainly my goal as a developer to have the top players be respectable.

So its not really about influence. The only influence I can see the top players having on other players is teaching upcoming players that lame playing style is what you need to win. The goal is that these memes die and it take s some conscious effort by the top players to kill them.

i guess what i really don't understand is what you're expecting is going to happen?

in this cultural change, what will be different?

If you are going to do an eBay system, you need to just let a fair group of mods with the ability to post.

Otherwise the ratings will just reflect the social support network that you are trying to eliminate. At then end of the month everyone who wants Vohaul to win will give Johnson bad reviews, and everyone who wants Johnson to win will give Upmax bad reviews.

And Ryan will take 20k from Monte and make him finish 3rd again.

People will just PGA their ratings. Really friendly people that always attack n00bs like Nuffy will be the most popular and highest rated, and competitive players that try to win and cannot be counted on for favors will be the lowest rated.

The system at conquerclub addresses that. Perhaps check it out first before commenting?

Since I usually troll the forum here, I'm sure some are surprised I haven't responded to this thread yet. So here goes my meager contribution........

I think the past 3 months or so have gone quite smoothly at the top. The monthly champs have been legit and there has been little or no KDrama at month-end.

I may not be one of the very top players, but I do play the higher tables immediately upon having enough points to do so, so I believe my opinion is fairly valid in this discussion.

The "elitist" culture that some describe is difficult to comprehend if they are an outsider to it. What some people call favors I consider to be familiarity with ones opponet. As others have said, if I am familiar with 4 of my 6 opponets and know how they will react to a in-game "favor", I am much more prone to doing that rather than risking my niceness on the 2 players I don't know.

Is this considered an improper act? Is this considered PGA? Is this even the problem Ryan is trying to address???

I think the answer to all 3 of those questions is probably no, but it still leaves new players in a tough position when trying to navigate the 2k's and 5k's for the first time. It doesn't make it impossible, but it can be discouraging to be beaten by a truce of "friends" and lose 2,000 points on your first attempt at a 5K table. I don't think there is anything that can be done about this style of play and I don't think this style of play is wrong either. Knowing your opponets reaction is part of the strategy of KDice and is at the very core of the social aspect of this game.

In my opinion, PGA in its purest form is almost completely gone from this site. However, game-to-game favors for past treatment is still carried out sometimes. This is the only aspect left in KDice that is unsavory and can easily be eliminated with a little self-policing. I love the idea of player ratings but there needs to be a lot of forethought placed on these ratings in order to devise a way for them to not be abused.

To those newbies who are afraid to move to the higher tables, my advice to you is to be patient. You may not succeed the first or second time up there. This game DOES REQUIRE relationships to be made in some form. Again, this is the baseline of the social aspect of any war game. Be active in the chat box. Be quick to make truces or counter-truces when necessary. The top players enjoy the social aspect of the game almost as much as the gameplay itself, so chatting and bullshitting is a must with these players.

Personally, I find KDice to be boring on the lower tables. There is very little chatting that occurs there. There are rarely any truces or counter-truces. It's like playing with bots sometimes. The top players are being called out a bit unfairly on this subject but that's because they are the most visible part of KDice. With great power comes great responsibility and Ryan is putting it on us to take care of these issues.



I think that was more than 2 cents..........

www.sirlin.net

Anyway, when I was in the "in" crowd I never got any help for you suckas, I just made it on my own...but I still love you all. I_suck.

Vermont, The conquer club idea is good, but i don't see how it protects against gaming the results. Also in kdice at the top table you don't really pick your opponents so I'm not sure people will check the ratings. They don't check reviews typically. With that said, I think it would be a good refinement for reviews to make it only postable after a game and have ratings in different categories.

Thrax, I think you are a good subject to identify the problem. From your description you are putting knowing how a player would react with all other types favors together in the same category. This is want needs to change. You need to identify what is an unfair favor and what is fair. For example, not attacking someone and knowing they'll respect that is one thing, but giving a friend a better position knowing that they'll return the favor in another game is completely unfair. Thinking these two are the same thing I think is the problem that many top players need to get away from.

And Thrax: "This game DOES REQUIRE relationships to be made in some form". This should be clarified. Do not take your relationships between games. Its fine to be friends, but play the game as a single entity regardless of relationships. Otherwise it's clearly unfair play.