@Ryan: Its ok. I am sorry for misunderstand you. But i think you misunderstood me. Im not criticising membership. Its ok. Im critising how you treat some of the members (Not all of them, some of them deserve what they get), because not all of them are cheaters and insuated that you said so. And i still think that community needs 2 be managed and im pretty sure you wont convince me :)


Why are you accusing fair players? What are you talking about Fede? What did he do wrong? I mean serriously, why you are accusing him? He's like 1 of the fairest and coolest players here who plays a lot and play's fairly. Im pretty sure you can ask anybody

@Monte : Im not saying he's poor at managing, but that he has made some mistakes with social part. And ill stay with my oppinion.

@BabyShampoo: i thought you were Johnson? Or at least he had access? Hmz, weird...

Thanks for the spelling correction shampoo, I hope that tangent gives you a small sense of victory in this debate (man I'm in a mean mood).

-- Thanks for being honest on that one.


I do agree with you that cheaters are bad for the community. What I am getting at is that there needs to be a certain level of drama to anything keep people engaged. Whether is it two factions fighting against each other or a player that is just really adept at the game. Those challenge excite people and the challenge must be larger than the game.

Look dude, I love this game. I also love the community... but what brings me back every day is to see what I missed. Without that hook, there is no traffic.

I'm talking straight marketing here. Without creating a need in your consumer's lives for this game -- be it the challenge of the game or the socialization aspect, the game will not last. And to be quite honest, I don't want to see that.

You and I attack things from different angles. I'm just telling you what it looks like from a marketing and sustainability angle -- traffic appears to be down -- lack of 2500 tables playing etc.

Where ever Kdice is in it's lifecycle, I would like to be on the team that keeps it going as long as I can.

But what's hard is to have this type of conversation with you... I don't see that you're open to having a frank discussion about the sustainability of the game. If you are and want to do that, I would love to chat.

I see this was not the route to go. I'll just cross bitching through an alt off my list.

In regard to Ryan's reference to chess, Bobby Fischer invented Chess 960 (a way to randomize the initial starting positions of chesspieces, a la kdice), see


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess960


because he thought that the Russians were fixing all the international chess matches. In kdice, if a two-player version was used for tournament play, the pga problem would be solved.

kdice tournaments would be awesome. 1v1 start with 4-5 lands. Could be great.

I think some of us "elite" - term used very loosely - think our drama and our opinions carry a lot more weight with the general kpublic then is true. I suggest most of us should get over ourselves. Sure of the drama is interesting to the population at large, but most isn't.

@Ryan, you know who loves your work and who is here to just tear you down and mooch of all you have done. Sure some of us complain because we want kdice to be better, and some complain just to see there words in the forum. Such is the internet.

Ryan wrote
at 4:35 PM, Friday July 11, 2008 CDT

...To most people who play KDice is interesting because they're up against good competition. Think of chess. Good games are good because they players are skilled not cheaters. Imagine someone in chess doing illegal moves and winning and then claiming chess needs this to be exciting. It's not cool, in fact people interested in chess would think this cheater is wasting their time and should be kicked out...

...The drama you're talking about is only interesting to a very small group of people. If thats what keeps these people coming to the site I would much rather they stay away and so would thousands of other players who are too busy playing to read this forum.

+1

Congrats to the community on creating YAPT. *Yet Another PGA Thread*. Clearly there weren't enough.

Ryan, why single out nightstalker? Clearly that account donated to this site before there was any reward given for it at all (other than knowing it was thanking you); and if I recall, made a rather sizable donation.

Points aren't everything. It's about fun.

Okay I think everybody should chill out. Nobody should post angry -- #1 Rule of the internet.

This is an incredibly strong community full of people like: Sarahplaying, Fiero, unlucky, Jpc4p, Vohaul, Dicey, skrum, monte, fiero, wishbone etc... that really care about Ryan's brilliant Game.

I don't think anybody has a serious personal grudge against Ryan. But I understand why Ryan gets tired of a lot of people complaining all the damn time.

Ryan has improved the game monumentally since the ELO days. I am sure he isn't making a whole lot of money and it probably gets really tiring for him hearing the same crap constantly. This is still free for most of us so we got to show him the love -- alot.

On the other hand, I've never seen such a thing, such a strong community like this. It's to Ryan's credit that he has created such a unique little world full of addicts, such as ourselves, that care so much, sometimes probably too much.

To have a community that cares so much that they bug the owner incessantly for improvements is unreal. That he is able to follow through on so many of them is amazing.

It's a small but growing community of gamers that cares so much about a game that they will go to any means to try and help. Dicey, for example, has told me several times in the past that she could do a lot of free help for Ryan. Dicey is actually a big shot professional Marketer in Real Life.

And unlucky (Tom in RL) is one of the nicest most skilled dicers I have ever known. He is from Lithuania so his English may be "incoherent", but in my experience he is one of the best people I know. Nuflis, Vohaul and Monte, I think, would agree with me. Also, though he is visiting Texas for the summer he certainly isn't Leekstep.....

Orla has a great reputation as not being a cheater. Fede is one of the funniest players out there. I think he was just making a joke -- Perhaps an ill timed joke but he would never attack anybody in a serious manner with his humor.


How can different sides who care an amazing amount about the same community let this thread go so far? I undertand why Ryan gets annoyed --- he has created this great thing that everybody enjoys yet sometimes the complainers won't just shut the fuck up.

But then again, I also can tell you that in my experience both Unlucky and Dicey have had a very positive effect on the community. Although oddly I don't think they like each other at all.

I haven't played in 6 months but the games have drastically improved in so many ways. If you have played continualy its probably hard to see the improvements Ryan has made.

Ryan has actually implemented a large number of things that the complainers have nagged him about since he started kdice.

However, nothing is perfect, I hear complaints about medal buying and racism in the chat, and problems with the 2500 tables. I have been gone so long I don't even know if these are legit complaints. But in some ways it doesnt matter. There will always be complaints in any community.

But I can tell you Ryan, that the players that I know, love the game and therefore they love your work. I think they stand ready and willing to help you in anyway. However in a diverse community, free spirits and free minds don't think alike: I think that creative friction will always be a part of any system. Even if its just an "internet dice game."

Ryan please understand the spirit in which i say all of this: Out of respect for both you and the community.

GG

Lol, did anyone read this till end?

you missed a little brown, right um.. *points to mikeys lip*

^^^ you try to help this kids....;)