Forum
kdice McCarthyism
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JeremyS wrote
at 10:20 PM, Wednesday January 23, 2008 EST
What in the world has happened here?
I take a couple weeks off because I am not entirely comfortable with things and I come back to find leekstep's witch hunt in full swing. I can't believe that Ryan is running statistical queries on demand to try to ferret out cheaters for leek. It's great that he's paid a hundred dollars in membership fees or whatever, but really going after players as he demands it smacks of a favoritism far worse than anything a small group of players working together can affect. And, quite frankly, I wouldn't want to succeed at this game under the current circumstances. I can say that while I have never PGAed once in my life, I am certain that I do better with a given set of players than with a given set of other players at the table. The statistics, from what I've seen, are utter rubbish anyway. The first error is to believe that you can get a serious view of things from such a tiny sample as 40 games that two people have played together. I've gone on a run at a blackjack table in casinos where I won 3/4 of my hands over the course of a shoe... a similarly sized sample. If you sat down and looked at that, you'd conclude that the house is absolutely insane for offering a blackjack game as the players clearly win 75% of their hands. Secondly, none of what I saw takes into account the tons of other factors that might influence such things. For example, if you look at my games with Vermont, you might conclude that we are allies (I have no idea what the stats actually show). However, if you then factored in the fact that during half of those games Mad Hat Sam was at the table, then you'd discover that Verm was probably placing higher in those games as Sam and I basically kill each other on sight. So, not only do I consider this statistic mongering irrelevant given the sample size, I consider the fact that it's occurring at all a sign of how incredibly unfriendly this game has become. I'm sure that there are PGAs to a limited degree in this game. I am also convinced that the cure has been worse than the problem, as the forums are filled with this garbage and the environment has grown so unfriendly as a whole that it's just not FUN to come here and sit down anymore. In conclusion, a lot of people need to remember that this is a GAME... I'm talking to you leek, you know we get along swimmingly, but you really need to step back and chill the fuck out. And pgamonitor, kdicefreak, and anyone similar: Go outside, soak up a little sun, and realize that you have appointed yourself as the inquisitional squad in an online dice game with no prize money at stake. |
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Mikeypoo wrote
at 3:00 AM, Thursday January 24, 2008 EST Correction Ridicu: I was told by Rage Unleashed who was told by Leekstep who was told by Ryan that there are 7 "clean and clear" PGA Free players. Mikeypoo, Sergio, Stacy and four other John & Jane Does. As to why the other four have not come forward i can only surmise they are in hiding in fear of the "pound me in the ass" beatings they might receive from the jealous mob should they come forward. Keep Hope Alive.
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Louis Cypher wrote
at 4:15 AM, Thursday January 24, 2008 EST Though I am too young to have lived in McCarthy-times the headhunts often initiated by Leekstep do ring a bell. The idea of him having major influence on the decisions springs to mind as he seems to be something like the attorney general prosecuting his favorite "goals".
Sort of reminds on old roman days where Crassus closed any speech saying "Ceterum Censeo Carthaginam Esse Delendam" until it was. Now we have been hearing "The Cabal must be band" until it was... I fully agree with Jeremy. An I have an idea how we might wish to handle it, now that statistics (doubtable or not may be decided by anyone for himself, any statistics I haven't faked personally is most doubtable unless it meets my point of view): Reporting interesting coincidences, publishing statistics about it, is ok. I can decide myself if I want to sit with those guys. Make another Leaderboard category: Players most suspicious of being PGA... |
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montecarlo wrote
at 9:16 AM, Thursday January 24, 2008 EST I personally think Ryans PGA-sniffing tool works somewhat well. The two people I have found most trustworthy this month: jpc4p and Vermont, according to Ryan, were my top two (but not in that order). When I played a game a couple nights ago against an obvious PGA (bombardier, alainww, big norm), I asked him about it the next day for fun. He ran big norm through and came up with bombardier. He ran bombardier through, and came up with alainww and Big Norm (the funny thing was that I forgot alainww's name, but when he said that it came up, I was like holy ****, that thing works, cus that was the dudes name!)
The important thing to notice about his comment was that he will only use this tool to sniff out "ridiculous" correlations. Sure, everyone has some correlations, apparently I have a +0.5 with Vermont (BOOOM, Verms). But I'm guessing he will only be interested in ridiculous ones. It's a very fun tool, and I hope to play with it one day. And if I remember correctly, rnd and integral were 'benched' before Ryan created this tool? So I doubt they were banned for PGA. |
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leekstep wrote
at 9:33 AM, Thursday January 24, 2008 EST Did you ever look at Ryan's avatar? Thats actually a real photo of Ryan. I am the one pulling the strings of the Yellow puppet.
I am sure whatever I decide will be exactly what Ryan does, because I do all the thinking for Ryan. I'm interested in finding out how kDice will deal with notorious PGAs like (Bombardier, Alainww, Big Norm) or (L3xy Nexon). |
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jurgen wrote
at 10:08 AM, Thursday January 24, 2008 EST First of all, i am looking forward to see who wil or wil not show up on my own stats. I know there are people i consider as friends that won't shop up (@awes! get your butt above 10k again so i can kick your butt) since i know i can attack them like any other player in the game if that suits my own game (and don't mind a fair retaliation) and possible others I just respect that might show up an artificial tendency to do better in his/her presence.
I just wonder if the "respect" factor won't influence the stats too much. I know i sometimes avoid people because i know their skills and thus can get a better result by avoiding them because I let them do the dirty work in a way. I am not saying the stats won't be useful in identifying the suspicious collaborations but I am wondering if there won't be an artificial side-effect for the higher ranked players. They say that great minds think alike and this might apply to kdice as well. In a random table with say 5 top500 players a top20 and a top50 player, how often don't you see the two highest ranked players make a very beneficial truce and win. Is it pga ? It can be pga of course but it is also a reasoning by both that they ally a skilled person (compared to someone they don't know the skills of yet). I think nobody will deny a trustworthy ally is vital in kdice. So let's find out, I hope the stats can be compiled for everyone soon. I also wanna know who i do badly with so i can either avoid them more or attack them earlier so they can't get big enough to kill me. |
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Ridicu Correlati wrote
at 10:56 AM, Thursday January 24, 2008 EST monte: i'm pretty sure you were a little late to the party that day; but the 'ridicu correlati' that were given that afternoon were in fact "ANTI SIT" lists -- those that would no longer be allowed to play with each other. from the mouth of the beast.
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lesplaydices wrote
at 10:57 AM, Thursday January 24, 2008 EST The point isn't that leek believes all the top 25 players are out to get him or that they are all working together to keep down the little guys. The point is that he likes fan fiction and sometimes gets bored and writes tl:dr dicing conspiracy theories. Which iunno might be worse but still.
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Ridicu Correlati wrote
at 10:58 AM, Thursday January 24, 2008 EST AND TO THE FOOLISH AND SUBVERTING MIKEYPOO:
Let us only say that none of the clears are on either the top 25 list, or above 20K in RHOMBI. |
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Shevar wrote
at 11:03 AM, Thursday January 24, 2008 EST Ther aint nothing wrong with running queries. Keep doing that, but also publish them. I'd like to see them for my self.
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Mikeypoo wrote
at 11:49 AM, Thursday January 24, 2008 EST yo RC
i know i suck don't rub it in you eleventeen year old goober. Besides Sssergio is going to soil me tonight. So i wont be clean for long |