Forum
Open letter to the Kdice Community
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XxDiceyGirlxX wrote
at 12:08 AM, Monday September 24, 2007 EDT
Dear Kdice Community,
For almost 2 months I have tried to find a way to like the new version of Kdice. I tested on the test server, I have logged many games this past month and I finally have to say… this version leaves me frustrated. I get the whole poker style wagering system, but Kdice is a much more complex game. In poker, you can’t work a pair of threes into a royal flush, but in Kdice you can work a pair of three stacks into a corner and win the whole game. It’s not about the dice you are dealt in the beginning it is the way you understand the game and the strategy to make those dice work for you. In Poker – you are dealt what you are dealt. So for me, a poker style scoring system falls quite flat. It took me a while to get to this point. But yesterday, I played a game that went over 40 rounds and it was exciting… full of strategy and old-school kdice entertainment. There were allies and enemies fighting it out for 1st place. The 8v8 game was the best since August under the elo system. Something I rarely see in the new version. In the end… the only person to get points was first. A dull thud to what could have been a fantastic game. It’s a real shame that this has to happen… that games now can be completed in 5 rounds. There is no point to have a long game or to employ any sort of strategy to play. Just click, roll, and go. But that’s not the only thing that has suffered. When I started playing Kdice, I realized quickly that it was just not a game of war, but it is a game of war AND allies. The social aspect of the game was just as important to the strategy aspect. The sheer dynamic of this left the game open to players of many different skill sets. Social networking became an important factor of the game. Now it is different… There is very little community or communication… just complaints. To be successful you just grab as many points as you can as daftly as you can. I have watched rooms before logging in to see top players getting fed points. And that really saddens me. The race for first is no longer the best dice player… it’s just the best point farmer. In the old game, there were creative and extreme ways to win as well, but they were manageable and noticeable. In the new version, things are driven underground and the ugly underbelly is that the game is no longer about who is the best dice player… it is about who can figure out creative ways to grab points and with great paranoia watch others do the same thing. Now… I stumble upon people feeding each other points and endless conversations about how the new version doesn’t quite meet everyone’s expectations. Everyone is clear and unhappy with the point farming, but no one standing up and making a change. Just to be clear, I’m not putting this out to bitch about the game. I respect what Ryan has done to create and maintain the game. And I really enjoy the game and the people I have met. It’s one of the more fun games I have ever played. And Ryan, I hope you don’t take this as an attack on the new version. I would hope that you will give us a chance to voice our opinions because at the very basic level – we are all partners. You and the player community work together to make this game what it is and I would like to extend a platform for us to discuss where we are at as a community with this new version. I hope that in responding to this post, that you will forward the conversation and be honest about what you think. Whether you agree with me or not… that doesn’t matter. What’s important is that we have a voice. So, this is where I stand. I’m frustrated. How about you? |
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Barkindji wrote
at 4:46 PM, Tuesday September 25, 2007 EDT Under the new system...
There should never be a penalty for dom... No one should be able to get negative dom. Thereby rewarding conservative play, but also rewarding dominant play. |
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russian Mike wrote
at 5:00 PM, Tuesday September 25, 2007 EDT YES! WE NEED TO SWITH BACK TO OLD SYSTEM
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*Brubaker* wrote
at 7:34 PM, Tuesday September 25, 2007 EDT And didn't you just know he'd post something.
Firstly, I'd like to say that I am pleased, nay, delighted that so many members have decided to take an active role here. Secondly, I'd like to say that as one of 'the bad cops', I actually agree with a great deal of what has been mentioned here, despite differences. Right, so let's go to work. I'm an average player, with an average job. I work from 9 to 5... no, wait... that's a Rockwell track. I'm an average player, who has embraced the new point system for many reasons - but the main reason is this. All games are social. Without an opponent, you have no game. To discuss how you play a game against those you either know, trust, talk to, admire, respect and/or fear is merely semantics. One of the most astonishing aspects of the 'tinternet' is it's allowances. It allows people who have never met to become great friends. It allows people who would never offer an opinion outside of their homes to offer one. It allows difference of opinion to be recorded and noted without the need for war or violence. So allow me this. The new scoring system doesn't work. It doesn't work if you are only concerned with playing against members who you have a rapport with. It doesn't work if you have spent endless months building complex and intricate relationships with others, of whom you see very little of 'these days'. The new scoring system works. It works because despite common belief, some 'average' players actually have a great deal to offer; either mentally, verbally or otherwise. It works because it has virtually eradicated elitism, which, as we all know, didn't really work back in WW2 or any other point in time for that matter. That said, this thread is a superb example of community and its dichotomy. There will ALWAYS be those who believe in the minds behind the machine, and those who believe in the soul of the game. It's just the nature of the beast. For what it's worth, I sympathise with those who miss their friends, I pity those who aren't willing to make new ones, and I empathise with those who are trying. Such is the order of things. Great post btw. Bru |
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rnd_ wrote
at 2:45 AM, Wednesday September 26, 2007 EDT I Agree.
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sarahxxx wrote
at 12:54 PM, Wednesday September 26, 2007 EDT i know i aint played nowhere near as much these past 2/3 months compared to what i did however, i pop back now and again for the odd game and to check the forums
my opinion after reading all the posts: i think rnd makes the best point along with oni, the ELO system (2k+ level) was a small influential group that enjoyed eachothers company. i really enjoyed playing the 2k levels because of a couple reasons... *higher level of play (XC mentioned 5v4's etc, i totally agree there!) *the social side of the game was excellent (i now find in the few games iv had, people are either slagging other players off, typing random shit or chatting me up) it took a long time for me to get 2k tables and when i got there, being accepted by the 'elite' players took some time. this in turn opened doors to an amzing group of people and kdice for me is a really socialable game, the reason i kept coming back. i feel this has been lost given the new system cos many 2k players are missing from the high 'new version' tables. bring back ELO!!! lol xxx |
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ShamosM wrote
at 2:36 PM, Wednesday September 26, 2007 EDT Great post
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Marj Simpson wrote
at 10:30 PM, Wednesday September 26, 2007 EDT hi
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mugambo wrote
at 3:38 AM, Thursday September 27, 2007 EDT No matter what, people are going to game the system. The ELO ranking system was gamed quite a bit.
I don't like this new emphasis on point farming. I do like the end of alliances and aggressive play, but like others have mentioned, too much is made upon rnd 1 and your position/starting order. I also don't like the fact that I can't play 250 games within one month to maintain a respectable ranking and see some familiar faces during that time. The social aspect was one of the biggest strengths to playing kdice. Even without alliances, you can still chat it up with familiar faces. Now I find that I like playing this game less and less. Another reason is that my personality doesn't quite get the rat race invovled for that high score when it'll all be reset in one single month. I'm too old to relive memories at the arcade. Without lasting friendships or a score of reference, the incentive for above average casual players to play isn't that great. I defintely rather not play 0 or 10 tables unless I needed a point or ego boost. But again, I don't play for that. I am excited to see Ryan's improvements in the coming months though, but my enthusiasm for the new system has been tempered and my hangover is rough. |
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Improv42 wrote
at 4:39 AM, Thursday September 27, 2007 EDT I've been around for a while. I'm a solid middle-of-the-pack player with occasional spikes into the stratosphere. I don't truce unless countering and I like the new flag system.
However, I must agree with the majority here on the social aspect. Over the last month, there has been very little conversations, and what little there has been has been largely belligerent and annoying. I don't know what that might have to do with the new scoring system, so I won't speculate. I love the game, and I understand how difficult it must be to design a dice-based strategy game that's rewarding to both the attackers and the festerers (the latter of which is largely me, unless I'm cornered or there's no other way to go). I think we just have to suck it up and get through to the next variation. Ryan seems to have been able to solve any kdice problem that's come up before. He'll likely do it again. I do miss the strategy and the camaraderie, as others here do. But I think much of that aspect of the game is what you make of it. Cheers. |
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gambiteleven wrote
at 7:01 AM, Thursday September 27, 2007 EDT Hi,
I am still rather new around here, which is sad because i played dicewars for about a year and a half before finding kdice. Shocking. Anyway... I played about a month in the old version and now a month in the new. I must say i enjoy both versions and that might be due to the fact that i wasnt 'used to' the old one. I think that you guys (top players) were very much set in your strategies and your groups. Which is awesome but very closed to new players. Now that the game has changed a lot of you are not getting a handle on it because its very different. I think its better now for newer players as we get to play with players that are clearly much better and maybe learn a thing or two from them. Which in turn makes newer players better which will bring a lot more competition to the tables. I must say though that the new version seems further from dicewars than the old one. For example, when a player in dicewars is the clear leader you will see the others team up and try to beat him/her. You saw that in the old version but rarely in the new. Another thing i noticed is that the majority of top players from the past are still the top players to date. So you guys are still doing well, difference being is new players are playing with you... There are many pros and cons but i think Ryan made a remarkable game here and i completely trust him and his team to keep giving us a great game... I may be completely off but that is what i have come to believe. gambiteleven (newcomer) |