Forum
Open letter to the Kdice Community
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XxDiceyGirlxX wrote
at 12:08 AM, Monday September 24, 2007 EDT
Dear Kdice Community,
For almost 2 months I have tried to find a way to like the new version of Kdice. I tested on the test server, I have logged many games this past month and I finally have to say… this version leaves me frustrated. I get the whole poker style wagering system, but Kdice is a much more complex game. In poker, you can’t work a pair of threes into a royal flush, but in Kdice you can work a pair of three stacks into a corner and win the whole game. It’s not about the dice you are dealt in the beginning it is the way you understand the game and the strategy to make those dice work for you. In Poker – you are dealt what you are dealt. So for me, a poker style scoring system falls quite flat. It took me a while to get to this point. But yesterday, I played a game that went over 40 rounds and it was exciting… full of strategy and old-school kdice entertainment. There were allies and enemies fighting it out for 1st place. The 8v8 game was the best since August under the elo system. Something I rarely see in the new version. In the end… the only person to get points was first. A dull thud to what could have been a fantastic game. It’s a real shame that this has to happen… that games now can be completed in 5 rounds. There is no point to have a long game or to employ any sort of strategy to play. Just click, roll, and go. But that’s not the only thing that has suffered. When I started playing Kdice, I realized quickly that it was just not a game of war, but it is a game of war AND allies. The social aspect of the game was just as important to the strategy aspect. The sheer dynamic of this left the game open to players of many different skill sets. Social networking became an important factor of the game. Now it is different… There is very little community or communication… just complaints. To be successful you just grab as many points as you can as daftly as you can. I have watched rooms before logging in to see top players getting fed points. And that really saddens me. The race for first is no longer the best dice player… it’s just the best point farmer. In the old game, there were creative and extreme ways to win as well, but they were manageable and noticeable. In the new version, things are driven underground and the ugly underbelly is that the game is no longer about who is the best dice player… it is about who can figure out creative ways to grab points and with great paranoia watch others do the same thing. Now… I stumble upon people feeding each other points and endless conversations about how the new version doesn’t quite meet everyone’s expectations. Everyone is clear and unhappy with the point farming, but no one standing up and making a change. Just to be clear, I’m not putting this out to bitch about the game. I respect what Ryan has done to create and maintain the game. And I really enjoy the game and the people I have met. It’s one of the more fun games I have ever played. And Ryan, I hope you don’t take this as an attack on the new version. I would hope that you will give us a chance to voice our opinions because at the very basic level – we are all partners. You and the player community work together to make this game what it is and I would like to extend a platform for us to discuss where we are at as a community with this new version. I hope that in responding to this post, that you will forward the conversation and be honest about what you think. Whether you agree with me or not… that doesn’t matter. What’s important is that we have a voice. So, this is where I stand. I’m frustrated. How about you? |
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Disasterz wrote
at 1:13 AM, Tuesday September 25, 2007 EDT Let's just start everything over.
Back to 1500 everyone! |
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Bedevere wrote
at 2:05 AM, Tuesday September 25, 2007 EDT I love the new scoring. I quit playing the ELO version because I got sick of people spoiling the game and too much emphasis on alliances. The new rules penalize people who stick around who don't have a chance of winning, which is great.
Under ELO, my score seemed almost random, mainly because I never liked making alliances as they seemed cheap to me. Under the new system, my score has rocketed up easily and I'm having more fun playing kdice than I ever had before. One thing people keep mentioning is that the new version penalizes conservative play. I imagine that is because they are talking about the conservative play that was rewarded under ELO, which was turtling and don't present a target. But under the new system, 1st place gets almost all the reward. If you just play with this in mind, then there is no problem. One thing that could be tweaked as to more promote the old-style of conservative play would be reducing the impact of dominance on the final score. If you do anything, do that, but please please please do not go back to the old system. |
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A1phaGeek wrote
at 3:24 AM, Tuesday September 25, 2007 EDT Unlike many of the folks here I do like many of the improvements. In the old version here were some major complaints about poor/improper use of the flagging system etc. In the new system there are new grumbles (noted above). I think the new system is a major step forward, but it has lost alot of the charm of the old system. You never see any alliances or even conversations about why you flagged improperly. conversation has dropped significantly during game play. There is still some banter about this or that, but much less about who to align with etc. I was never in the leaders pack, but I do miss some of the features of the old game. The new one is very different. I think some more refinements, and possible combining the best of the old with the best of the new.
My two cents: About the new points and available tables: I think there needs to be more lower level game tables, with less backtracking (playing below your level). 10, 50, 100, 250, 500, etc. I also think the point system does encourage point farming, the more you play the more points you can accumulate. so maybe tempering it with a per game average? or a moving up in the ranks, once you earn your way out of the 10 table you can never go back, 10 becomes your new 0, same with the 100, etc. or once you win 10 games on the 100 table you move up to the "Pro Ams". once you win 10 games on the 500 table you move up to the "pros", "kings", "generals","champions"etc. About "Flagging": Also I miss the throwing in the towel but not fully surrendering. So my suggestion for the "flagging" system... Two types of flags. 1 Old Skool, I flag, -If everyone else flags the game ends, but If I see an opportunity I'm still in the game. 2 New Skool, I fully surrender, -let me go play a new game where I have a chance. I think this will let you decide to stay and jockey for position or just quit, with much less bitching about improper flagging, because there are two very discernible types of surrender. Finally About the social aspects. I think that something more complex than the current (?broken?) friends system. I would like to see the ability to rate or keep track of the players I enjoy playing against, respect, etc. As well as the ability to rate or keep track of the players I have been backstabbed by, find crude, or suspect of being a multi or point farmer. It would be nice if this lived in a portion of your user profile, and possibly could be made public, or kept private. It would be nice to still keep track of friends or people who's scores your are interested in, similar to the current, but also to build a personal character database. Ramble over. Thanks for reading P.S i no use gramor or spel check, hope it's not too distractin' |
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A1phaGeek wrote
at 3:26 AM, Tuesday September 25, 2007 EDT Unlike many of the folks here I do like many of the improvements. In the old version here were some major complaints about poor/improper use of the flagging system etc. In the new system there are new grumbles (noted above). I think the new system is a major step forward, but it has lost alot of the charm of the old system. You never see any alliances or even conversations about why you flagged improperly. conversation has dropped significantly during game play. There is still some banter about this or that, but much less about who to align with etc. I was never in the leaders pack, but I do miss some of the features of the old game. The new one is very different. I think some more refinements, and possible combining the best of the old with the best of the new.
My two cents: About the new points and available tables: I think there needs to be more lower level game tables, with less backtracking (playing below your level). 10, 50, 100, 250, 500, etc. I also think the point system does encourage point farming, the more you play the more points you can accumulate. so maybe tempering it with a per game average? or a moving up in the ranks, once you earn your way out of the 10 table you can never go back, 10 becomes your new 0, same with the 100, etc. or once you win 10 games on the 100 table you move up to the "Pro Ams". once you win 10 games on the 500 table you move up to the "pros", "kings", "generals","champions"etc. About "Flagging": Also I miss the throwing in the towel but not fully surrendering. So my suggestion for the "flagging" system... Two types of flags. 1 Old Skool, I flag, -If everyone else flags the game ends, but If I see an opportunity I'm still in the game. 2 New Skool, I fully surrender, -let me go play a new game where I have a chance. I think this will let you decide to stay and jockey for position or just quit, with much less bitching about improper flagging, because there are two very discernible types of surrender. Finally About the social aspects. I think that something more complex than the current (?broken?) friends system. I would like to see the ability to rate or keep track of the players I enjoy playing against, respect, etc. As well as the ability to rate or keep track of the players I have been backstabbed by, find crude, or suspect of being a multi or point farmer. It would be nice if this lived in a portion of your user profile, and possibly could be made public, or kept private. It would be nice to still keep track of friends or people who's scores your are interested in, similar to the current, but also to build a personal character database. Ramble over. Thanks for reading |
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Holy Hellraiser wrote
at 6:43 AM, Tuesday September 25, 2007 EDT I like the new system overall but i to have a couple complaints
1)high rated players dont play at high rated tables because its safer to school noobs at low rated tables then to risk it all at the 400s and while its very nice to get a chance to play with them its important to devide people up at least a little but thats easily fixed by adding more tables with point limits on them 2)a comeback victory under the new system is worthless on my old acount i came back to win from 1 land and barly earned points for it and thats not fair i was proud of that game but other then that i like the new system its much easier to understand then before and i mean much easier i never understood how that decimal on my profile worked i like how the scores are reset every month because that levels the playing feild where before the top players already had the advantage and i love the forced flags it just needs a little tweaking to be perfect but i trust ryan will figure it out without reverting to the old elo system which was hard to understand and favored the people who were already on top and thats my 2 cents ima watch this forum to see what you guys think and hopefully all the problems you addressed will be fixed soon and everybody will go back to havin some k fun |
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I_suck wrote
at 8:19 AM, Tuesday September 25, 2007 EDT This has been a beautiful thread, if a little long. All I have to say is, I used to be a 2k player (for a bit) and I've almost stopped playing the game. Since I only play 1-2 games a week now, I can't tell you exactly what's wrong, but the vital discouraging component that is is the frustration. With the new system, I could create an alt, play at the unrated tables if I wanted to, and win maybe 2 out of 5 times. Now, at the 0 point tables, I can win maybe 1 out of 10. So facing the same skill levels, I fail miserably. And since I fail so badly so often, I stopped playing. I tried both taking risks and staying steady, neither helped. I tried a delicate balance, no help. I tried playing poker instead, and I think I'm doing pretty good at that. If any of my old kdice buddies see this, I'm still around at the gpokr tables. Let me know if the situation improves.
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unlucky9999 wrote
at 8:20 AM, Tuesday September 25, 2007 EDT Well, another idea is 2 have www.kdice.com as an old system with elo and maybe new flagging stuff and 2 have www.kdice2.com or smthing. I think that would make every1 happy and they'd play where they want
p.s. WR, didnt u forgot smthing? |
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unlucky9999 wrote
at 8:22 AM, Tuesday September 25, 2007 EDT I think they best way 2 solve this problem would be 2 make www.kdice.com (old elo system+new flagging) and www.kdice2.com (new system). That would make every1 happy :)
P.s. WR, arent u forgeting smthing? xD |
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XxDiceyGirlxX wrote
at 8:52 AM, Tuesday September 25, 2007 EDT Is thread broken?
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know_it_all wrote
at 1:20 PM, Tuesday September 25, 2007 EDT i like the new version. the loudest voices here are from the former 2k players. how about having ryan give you the program he wrote and you guys can go establish and fund you own private clud with the old version?
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