ok , I'll start bu saying we don't have to go as far as science can bring us, I mean: NOT EVEN CLOSE. It's just a matter of time before science could clone humans or create truly designer babies.

I mean there will have to be very clear lines which science cannot cross. Better be a bit more strict than you could to be sure never to cross it. Unfortunately, if something is within the grasp of science, at least one crazy scientist will try it I am sure (bit of the story of eve and the apple really :P).

but that's the same for guns: America is very pro the right to carry guns despite so many casualties and murders. I agree it's not the gun that kills but it's the person. But it's the same logic where you allow scientist to try and advance knowledge by doing stem cell research for example. Sure some weirdo will try to create a Frankenstein someday but legitimate research should be allowed. Many techniques are developed to help mankind.

Many of us wouldn't be here today if it weren't for scientific advances that helped cure so many people. Hell, if we had not invented anything for the last 2000 years, we wouldn't be here playing KDice, living a great life full of technological wonders. We'd still be fighting each other with axes, women would be raped all the time, people would still die from a simple flu, etc.

Monte raises a good point about the PR issue. The problem is that science has advanced so much that many people can't grasp every new concept. It's easy for people to manipulate opinions, simply by spreading fear. Also simple slogans work best: using embryos or stem cells is killing a human being -> uninformed person: hey, killing people is bad. Religious groups have very good PR and lobby people.

Stem cell research is vital in the fight against many cancers, lots of autoimmune diseases, metabolism deficiencies, etc. A stem cell is just as much "alive" as a lung cell or a liver cell: it produces biochemical energy from converting nutrients into adenosine triphosphate, it transcribes enzymes, it secretes signal molecules, etc. It does not have a soul or a purpose of living. All brain cells apart don't form a thinking organism, it's the giant neural network inbetween cells that allows us to have thoughts. Removing one cell would not make us thinking differently.


What I am trying to say is that religious people need a reality check and learn to separate "the sanctity of life" from things that have nothing to do with it like stem cell research or even research on embryos

Then there is the next step where they should realize that abortions or euthanasia are not always bad things but to the contrary, sometimes they can be the most humane thing to do. But lets keep that for after the 300th post.

We were made in His image, should we not strive to be more like Him?

Thrax, congratz on the pregnancy !, so all the best there and I'll cross my fingers that all goes well from here on.

damn i want to go to the abortion/euthenasia topic sooner rather than later. i was tooling around the internet, and found a thread in a poker forum which first post was something like: "i jumped off the brooklyn bridge. i meant to kill myself, but survived. ask me any questions and i will answer." and it was a true story, and was amazing to see the guys thought process, especially in light of the atheist/religious convo over here. the dude was an atheist before the jump, and just as much an atheist after it. it was cool reading his posts.

after a hundred or so replies, a couple people mentioned a documentary called "the bridge" which was shot in 2004 about the golden gate bridge, which apparently is the site of the most suicides off of a manmade construction. after scouring youtube a bit, i found it, and watched all 9 parts straight, because it was riveting. and was excellent for me to watch, as ive never tried to understand suicide. made me rethink a lot of my reactions to codys choice.

Thanks jurg. We hit the 2nd trimester next week, so all should be smooth from here.

the reason they freeze eggs is because you tend to "harvest" more with the procedure than you can use in one go. It also is supposed to be cheaper and definitely less draining for your bodies wife to do it only once.

egg cells only contain half the DNA to start a new human being (or any other higher animal). Sure there are techniques to duplicate it but basically an egg is haploid, not able to grown into a multicellular being. I jut a bit of molecules, all combined together into enzymes, cellular walls, DNA, RNA, etc to form one cell. It dies when it runs out of metabolic energy so to speak. It's NOT a human being, it doesn't contain a "soul".

About 2 million dead skin cells fall off your body each hour. Is anybody going to care about those? One skin cell contains even more information of the person who lost it, compared to what is lost in the death of one sperm or egg cell.

yah, thrax congrats! especially in light that yall decided not to do the artificial insemination route. amazing amount of patience yall had. i bet yalls relationship is a lot stronger now, not because you got preggers, but because of making it through 3 tough years together.

im guessing your wife has outruled the middle name of shadolin tho, huh? bummer.

less draining for your wife's body to do it only once. *

I am sure it's full of other typo's, sorry, can't edit for some divine reason

does loo still play or hang around the forum? im sure she could give excellent feminine wisdom on this subject.

jurgs your explanation makes complete logical sense, but we are talking about emotional beings here. i would hazard that most women do not see their eggs relatable in any way shape or form to their skin cells. those eggs are damn precious to them. its awesome to see how strong their motherly tendencies are, even to their eggs. a thing of beauty, really.

Well, Michael is a possibility for a middle name if it's a boy, and I'm sure shad would have no beef with that.

It took us 18 months from start to impregnation this time around. It wasn't till we "gave up" (didn't track temps/didn't go to fertility clinic/didn't try any wacky gels) that it finally happened. Funny how that works out sometimes.

Not too bad. Joey will be 4-1/2 when the new baby comes. He can be a protective big brother, especially if it's a girl like we think it is.