MadHat_Sam:

A viable alternative to Obamacare is free markets.

If the particular part of Obamacare that you want a viable alternative for is insurance for those who can't afford it, why not bypass all the insurance mess and offer taxpayer funded healthcare directly?

Veternary medicine seems to work nicely under a free market system. And animals that aren't owned can get free medical care by the government, like the oiled birds on the beach.

The amount of taxes that would be voted for to support government supplied health care would be based on the median voter's assessment of the quality and cost of privately provided health care versus the quality of the publicly provided health care and the rationing that would go with it and the probability that the median voter would have to rely on publicly provded health care.

skrum, america isnt about people thinking things through and offering insightful solutions. its about bipartisanship. (sarcasm)

@blondes: not that i would ever vote for palin, but i dont think you can use the argument that she cant raise a family, because clinton was a butcher of a husband, and was still did fine as a president.

monte i guess you are right; besides we all know she is a nut anyway.


Thrax the argument that republicans keep using that Obama has done nothing is the weakest scapegoat i have ever heard of.


some of the things Obama has done:
-saved the auto industry by having GM and other car companies reform
-improved our foreign policy, and the global view of the US (inclduing Iran)
-ended the worst of the recession
-put more emphasis on Afghanistan from iraq through the Overseas Contingency Operation
-created countless green jobs
-closed the torture camp in Guantanamo
-reformed the health industry in the midst of its collapse
-dealt with a disaster in the gulf effectively, something Bush could not do
-set a timetable for the beginning of pulling our troops in Iraq
-slowed down the progression of both North Korea's and Iran's nuclear program (all Bush did was put them in his "Axis of Evil", polarizing them from western powers)
-signed a massive nuclear disarmament treaty with Russia
-allowed the media to show the return of dead soldiers from the Overseas Contingency Operation (ending Bush's propaganda)

and the thing that proved to me that he was a good person was the fact that Obama and Hillary Clinton pushed aside their egos; just so that two US reporters (Laura Ling and Euna Lee) could return to their families in the US and not go to the North Korean Gulags. The gulags are by far the biggest human rights atrocity taking place in the world today

he also is dealing with Islamic countries in a respectful manner. When Israel started bombing the Gaza Strip, he condemned their actions and sided with the Islamic countries. Not because he is a terrorist, but because what Israel was doing was total disrespectful of basic human living standards.


to skrum: sorry i phrased myself incorrectly, he did not go to college at the Univ. Of Phoenix; he just got a degree from there

to skrum's health care arguments:

half of the purpose of Obamacare (the other half is to save money)was to give middle class citizens, who don't qualify for medicare of medicaid, health care. Countless Americans die from curable diseases or don't receive proper medical equipment; a large majority of those people are war veterans.
the problem with the free market is that while it does save money (still not as much as Obamacare, mind you) is that it only helps the upper class, who don't even need health care coverage since they are rich.


i admit, OBAMA IS NOT PERFECT. like all politicians he is arrogant. The firing of McChrystal was an example enough of that. McCrys is an ass, I admit, but was one of the best generals the US has had in a long time, and without him the war of terror would of had much worse side effects than it currently has.
Patreaus, while competent, is no McChrystal

oh man, i thought this thread died

blondes_win:

The proposal I already made solves the half problem of availability. Maybe I didn't make clear that the government health care would be offered free to the patient. So everyone has the option of either buying health care on the market or getting government care.

Of course the government care costs money: you have to hire the physicians and provide the drugs and hire the death panels. But since there would be no preexisting condition rule for the government care you could save some money there. The government care would be funded out of general revenues.

-saved the auto industry by having GM and other car companies reform

Maybe. It sure was nice to see all the foreign carmakers rake in the money in the Cash for Clunkers program though.

-improved our foreign policy, and the global view of the US (inclduing Iran)

Yeah, he sucked plenty of dick on his "bow to everyone" tour. Shame that they are actually laughing AT him and not WITH him.

-ended the worst of the recession

The worst of the recession would have ended with almost any policy. Unfortunately, Obama is placing us in a far worse financial position than you could ever blame Bush for. Far too much spending with very little results.

-put more emphasis on Afghanistan from iraq through the Overseas Contingency Operation

If Bush did this you'd just be bitching about how we shouldn't be in Afghanistan either. You dems are homers...

-created countless green jobs

Temporary and fleeting jobs, just like the rest of his "stimulus". Lots of public sector jobs, little done for the private sector.

-closed the torture camp in Guantanamo

When did Gitmo close?

-reformed the health industry in the midst of its collapse

"reformed" Good word, he did reform the health industry (we have to wait 10 years to see if it's any good). Now we get to count down the days till it breaks the piggy bank.

-dealt with a disaster in the gulf effectively, something Bush could not do

Really? How can you say that? Instead of fixing the problem & using assitance from other countries he spent time playing politics by having inquiries. Fix the fucking problem, then have your inquiries. Typical grandstanding from Rock Star Obama.

-set a timetable for the beginning of pulling our troops in Iraq

He is using BUSH'S timetable and taking credit for it.

-slowed down the progression of both North Korea's and Iran's nuclear program (all Bush did was put them in his "Axis of Evil", polarizing them from western powers)

These two countries are more unstable than ever. At least they were scared when Bush was in office. Barry makes our country look like an easy target.

-signed a massive nuclear disarmament treaty with Russia

Wow, the Cold War is over?

-allowed the media to show the return of dead soldiers from the Overseas Contingency Operation (ending Bush's propaganda)

Yeah, he uses the media at his whim to push whatever agenda he wants. He used it in this instance to do the same grandstanding I've mentioned before. Bush saw the return of soldiers in solitude and without cameras, granting the families of loved ones privacy and a chance to mourn. Obama is a prick for showing it live on TV. Again, if Bush did this, you'd just bitch about how it's wrong.

Thats right = PGA's are Bushes fault


Oh sry wrong thread

@Skrum

I wasn't saying there were not viable alternatives, but the alternative you state were not being advocated from the conservative side of the aisle. I wasn't arguing for the merits or pitfalls of Obamacare I was stating that both parties really suck right now and it is silly for conservatives to bitch about Obama when the candidates they support are no better.

Special interests have choked the life out of the US government. Dems argue for social welfare, Reps argue for corporate welfare and in the end neither really do much for the average Joe.

Thraxle's guide to insulting democrats/obama

1. Call him BO or Barry, something that makes him seem like he runs a gas station and is not the PotUS.
2. When on the topic of foreign policy, always accuse Obama of sucking other country's dicks.
3. If a democrat presents a logical reason why Obama has done well as the PotUS, say that they wouldnt support the same policy if we had a republican president.
4. If all else fails just say it was Bush's idea.
5. And last but certainly not least, claim that he is destroying everything that is America by taxing the US citizens.