I've seen it.......it's pretty funny, and pretty dumb

I just dislike religion in general. I think it's a bad idea and it adds another level of segregation to a world already full of segregation.

I think the more intellegent mankind gets, the further he will be from NEEDING religion.

And I do think many people need it. Morality isn't easy to grasp for some, so the fear of a powerful being does the trick to keep some people in line. Religion still serves as a means for lawful conduct, since it's teaching are mainly based in morality and goodness.

well said thrax.

when i get in these debates i often hear theists say something along those lines. like, "where do atheists get their morals if they don't believe in god?"

all i can say to that is....i hope those people never lose their belief in god. they sound like one faith crisis away from turning into a maniac.

and yes, i am a pastafarian at heart.

oh ya, concerning the fear-as-motivation thing...

i would say im more inspired by love than fear. machiavelli would pwn my ass. along with rnd.

i like how we can all discuss our huge differences in a level-headed way, while at the same time all agree that charles vii is an idiot.

yeah.....this convo/500 > any convo with Charlie*25

This is just a question and I'm not sure where exactly it will lead us.

Let us suppose that God where to reveal himself to the world today, so that all could believe in his existence. Then let us say that 300 years from now some cataclysmic event sends us into chaos as a planet and disease, war, and raiders from the north send us in a spiral of regression. We are now in a dark age socially, technologically, and economically. Now let us presume that most knowledge and records where lost in this period of time, much as they where between 1600 and 800 years ago.

If you where born 2000 years later would you believe in God, or would you regard it as a bunch of fairy tale bullshit that man made to make himself feel better?

You wouldn't be able to prove or disprove his existence or disprove it. All you would have is a few accounts that survived the dark ages with questionable validity.

well Homer.

if god wanted to, he could reveal himself again. or he could not let all that chaos happen that made us lose the historical records.

basically, if an omnipotent being wanted us to be aware of his existance, i'm pretty sure he'd know how to facilitate that.

hasnt everyone in this topic already basically agreed on your conclusion that its impossible to prove or disprove his existence?

Also concerning the fear question again. Another reason i see my faith as being hope bound rather then fear bound.

For many Christians the end goal is making it into heaven. I like to refer to these Christians as "rat in a maze" Christians. To them all to often life and spirituality are a maze. The purpose for completing this maze is because we where told there is cheese at the end. If we dont run the maze we will starve to death, but if we do the maze there is still a chance that we may get the cheese and continue to live.
I will admit this is a tempting goal of religion, and it is one that i am constantly fighting against within myself. For me though the end goal is to be pleasing in the eyes of my creator. It is an exercise in futility in my opinion to try to predict which actions will help us get into heaven. It is however plausible to find what we can do to please God. He gives us several examples in The Bible. This is also one of my basis for my belief that "works" are an integral part of faith and salvation.

Now to explain why this does not equate into a belief that we can earn our way into heaven. We are all servants of God. He feeds us, nurishes us, and gives us life. In return we serve him. To equate this to a classical servant/ master relationship, You are the master and me and monte are your servants.
Now lets say every day we do the same amount of work with the same amount of proficiency. However Monte does it with a smile and is always friendly and looking for what else he can do to serve you. While i am grumbling and you have to give me every task to do because i show no gumption to serve, but i still do everything you ask of me as long as i get paid at the end of the week.

Now lets say that hard times have fallen on your household and you must sell a servant to your neighbor, who does not treat his servants well like you do. assuming we both will fetch the same price. Which one of us would you keep?

I for one would keep monte, even though i can expect to get 10 less years of work out of him. (I'm assuming that's about how much older you are then I am)

I cant read this thread, its just too lame