nice av das

>As for Iraq, you're only as good as your intelligence and our intelligence told us there were WMD's there.

Bush said he'd listen to his generals. Before the war even started, one of the highest ranking generals testified "something in the order of several hundred thousand soldiers" would probably be required for postwar Iraq. They shelved the dude after he said that. IT'S BS THAT IRAQ WAS AN INTELLIGENCE FAILURE! It's was 100% group think (look it up).

>BTW, when does it actually become "Obama's economy", and the current issues become "Obama's issues"?

How about now...job losses have gone from 800K a month to virtually nothing.

>And of course the deficit dropped when Clinton was in office........all dems know how to do is raise taxes.

And yet peoples average wealth went up. So you can raise taxes and still have a thriving economy!

>So first off. At least when shit hit the fan while the GoP was in power it was largely the American peoples part. Anybody that knows anything about the republican financial policy knows that they tend to err on the side of nonintervention thus creating as close to a free market as possible.

By this retarded logic, it's the fault of the people who were in the twin towers that they got killed because the government was just being non-interventionest with terrorists.

>Second how many billions of dollars has the government spent on bailing out companies that should go under? Natural selection doesnt just work for biology you know.

Try studying the great depression. Things like bank holidays (which are interventionist) have been a good thing. Further if we extend your analogy then there's no reason for government to exist, including police, fire, defense, everything. Privatize everything by your logic Anne.

>I think that the governments duty is to the people as a whole not to the individual.

I guess you don't believe in the bill of rights, or the declaration of independence. Maybe you are not from US.

> If im going to be paying for somebodies t.v. bill and food i want it to be out of the goodness of my heart not under durress from the gov.

You're already paying it. When someone goes to the emergency room, they can not be denied access whether they can pay or not.

>My view on health care is simple.

Indeed.

I was never a big fan of daft punk.

Gdott: If Barack didn't think he deserved the prize then he SHOULDN'T have accepted it. Accepting it and then saying you don't derserve it is a croc

As to everything else. Thrax is pretty much saying it....

Ps. I'm a libertarian. Fuck the gov. All they do is screw shit up. Local government is better. The feds should support the locals and NOTHING more.

this should be fun.

"By this retarded logic, it's the fault of the people who were in the twin towers that they got killed because the government was just being non-interventionest with terrorists. "

first off that statement is not applicable to what i was talking about. Govt. nointervention in the economy is different from bad security. Secondly the twin towers being hit didnt weaken our economy much. It was the loss in confidence and the insuing nationwide panic that caused the problems. The economy itself wasnt really hurt so much as the price index was massively inflated. If everybody stocks up on goods all at once it creates a massive demand and a supply deficiency. its a no brainer that prices would sky rocket. However once the initial shock subsided our economy continued to grow at an increasing rate.

"Try studying the great depression. Things like bank holidays (which are interventionist) have been a good thing. Further if we extend your analogy then there's no reason for government to exist, including police, fire, defense, everything. Privatize everything by your logic Anne."

The effectiveness of many of the governments interventionist policies are in question during the depression. It is widely argued that it is the war that brought us out of it. Lots of unemployed people suddenly had jobs as soldiers and the nation was utilizing it's full production capacity. In fact if you knew anything about the economy in the 30s you would know that it was in the shitter up until the war broke out. It didnt really bounce back until we entered the war. The bank holiday was effective for only one reason. And that reason is it created an illusion of security. People stopped making runs on the bank becuase suddenly their deposites where insured. and only the "healthy" banks where allowed to reopen. I will stipulate that in some extreme cases govt regulation for very short periods of time can be useful. The bank holiday may or may not have been one of those cases. However this is not one of those cases.
Further more you are applying nonintervention of the market to things that i never mentioned. The govt. has a list of essential services that it should provide. fire, police, emergency med, national defense are a few essential functions. Forcing us all (except for elected officials like senators) to have the same health care coverage or be taxed extra for private insurance is utterly ridiculous. Medical emergencies are one thing, and im ok with the govt helping foot the bill if your life is on the line. I for one sacrifice hugely to pay for my own insurance so that im covered if i need emergency medical attention. But ultimately YOU THE INDIVIDUAL should be responsible for your well being not the govt.

"I guess you don't believe in the bill of rights, or the declaration of independence. Maybe you are not from US. "

The BoR protect the individual from government abuse. I still stand by the statement that the govt. should be responsible for its people as a whole not individuals. This is not to say however that the govt. has the right to intrude on an individuals rights. If you read the Bill of Rights (im sure you probably have) you will notice that there is no part in it about provide free money to people who are to lazy to get a job. it basically says in a nutshell "Citizens you have certain rights that your govt. shall not infringe upon. These include:freedom of religion, the right to bear arms, the right to refuse quarter to soldiers...." The declaration of independence merely says that all men have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. again no mention of the govt subsidizing those of you too lazey to get a job.
And for your information I am a voting natural born citizen of the United States of America. And im probably a hell of a lot more informed about the stuff we vote on then you are. I mean do you even read any of the bills that you are called to vote on? or do you just watch the tv adds? at best i bet you skim the overviews or listen to commentary from your good buddy ED.

My view on Health care is indeed simple. Thats is not a bad thing either. At least i try to make sure i am informed before i go off blabbing and trying to promote some agenda.

Seriously if you people would just take a couple hours to actually read up on some of this shit that your voting on, or that your reps are voting on, or about the history of the reps your voting on we probably wouldnt be in this mess anyway.

"A nation can only be as weak as It's people allow it to be."

wtf, i always thought dete was a pre-pube like mattz or cambs or something. srsly, wtf.

respect gained.

THATS RIGHT MATTZ & CAMBRIA.

I am tempted to give my first plus to dete for posting a cogent argument. They seem to be few and far between lately.

lol monte. thats because I'm hardly ever serious, I don,t ever edit anything, and i like not having to act my age. I'm not "old" per say. but i am old enough to find it necessary to be politically aware. I have however taken enough economics classes to be a senior in a related field. By no means am I an expert, but I am well educated in the area. I'm 22 btw.

Vermont, that is the shame about these online forums. 99% of the people are ignorant and are just arguing to be arguing. I enjoy a good debate. I don't so much enjoy verbal slap fests, which seem to be the norm in forums and even in congress. The end goal is to be more informed and to get something constructive accomplished right?

That's the end goal for the more reasonable people out there. The problem is that it's pretty easy for folks who just want to "win" the argument to hijack the discussion.