jurgen i know what you mean. but how is it possible that everyone is willed to play at the 2k or 5k tables?
We cant stop PGA and cheating. Only the cheater can stop it by himself. And I think the PGA players wont stop it, if its still going the same way.
And i really think, its better you have to play much as to play on PGA tables to get a chance to reach a rank.
I am one of them scared to play higher tables. I always look who is sitting. So i have to play alot to reach a rank with playing 500 tables. And I am also a player who knows alot of all the higher ranked people, but still scared.
So how can we fix the prob.
Everybody should get the same chance.
Would mean

§1 FAIR PLAY

How can we get the people to play fair?
If we took the advance that you get with PGA

stop bitching at each other it isn't solving anything

Ryan.
as you know I'm pretty much done debating with you about a definition of fairness. I don't mind that. It's your game and I don't mind you do with what you feel is right.

We agree that PGAing is definitely unfair behavior. So todays 100 tourney i had to quit sadly for RL reasons we had a case where sole and Tom-V15 confirmed they pgaed in front of the table ask anyone else who witnessed that.
Tom15 was out of the tourney pretty fast but when i finally could come back to see the tourney (i was out that time due to away 33th) i had a hard time convincing the remaining folks to take measures to let sole who happened to be in the final 2 tables not get any fair earned points.

I do have a interest in getting this game a fair one. I know you invest a lot of time and coding in this game while you don't have to.
I don't like the fact that i have to talk people into that for like 20 minutes to just prevent a PGAer getting any part of my fair earned 100buy-ins in that tourney, it would have been easier to me to take any alt and gun and PGE him down afterwards to nothing to be honest. As long as any fair player has _no appeal_ and no way to help this matter but ingame, i have to agree to you Ryan sadly yes, you have to take care of this on your own.
And most of the time when you realise _in-game_ its a PGA its usually too late.
I've seen just far too many PGAs around to even roughly have a split part of the time to track those down.

Sorry Ryan. I'd love to but i can't help you any farer than i already did.

Good luck

MW

Ryan, why create a game involving politics and then try to stop it? You never will be able to.

and the oscar goes to...montecarlo.
monte you've played this game almost two years and you don't know what good and bad playing is???
when you were doing your bs, in both games everyone told you it was bs. it did not stop you. i only mentioned those games bc you tried calling out nex and murti, two of my fav ppl on this gaming site. im not criticizing your gaming style, even though it would be warranted bc you love thrashing mine. my pt was don't call ppl out...it's not cool to put ppl on blast, when you're doing or have done the same thing. the post is top players need a culture change. that includes us all, no need to get petty and say so and so is a cheater. bc many ppl can call out some shady things you have done.

just lemme fix one point:
top players will ALWAYS favor each other, not cause of pga, just cause of knowing the other players skill. the question is not if we should, its just how far we all go in this case...

@ johnson: tell me one top who has not a nasty history...

I'm going to say it again, and again, until someone tells me they've heard me: Doesn't it sorta, you know, devalue any position in the top 100 if you got help getting there?


Monte or wish or whoever the fuck cheated may have 12 trophy's, but what's the worth of them since they're really not well earned?


If you get 1st, but you had any favors, or PGA or what have you, that's not first, at all. It's not debatable, that's just fact.



A World Series win may seem like the "best team of all" to others , but if everyone practically knows there's cheating involved to get it, then it devalues it , not only morally but logically.



Like, this: Lemonade made from mix and from actual lemons and sugar are two different things, even thought they look the same.




I know everybody gets what I mean, but I don't really know why none of these players who desire first or whathave you really deserve it because they're not the best of the best if they cheated.... idk, I'm rambling, but I don't know why i haven't encountered this thought yet.

Love the random Lemonade analogy.

Dizzle, the problem is defining the term cheating within this game. I know the recent witch hunt has been all about "trading favors" from game to game, but I've seen people get modded by Ryan for their play within a SINGLE GAME. I won't name names or try to defend anyone. And I'm not trying to question the way in which Ryan wants to run his website. But by saying people need to base their play on a set of personal morals that we all know to be true is too loose of a definition and very open to interpretation (just like flagging).

Is it OK to trust a player who's style you know from previous games over a player that you've never played with before? Outsiders from this "top player culture" consider the above type of play to be elitist and PGA. I consider the above type of play to be advantageous and proper use of my knowledge of other players playing styles.

It is the lack of definition between what is proper play and what is improper play that is the problem. It's a fact that people have different moral sets. It's a fact that people have different playing styles. It's a fact that if I offer a truce to someone I would like to know how that partner plays and where they will go in the game. That IS THE SOCIAL SIDE OF THIS GAME. This is a war game. Part of the strategy of war is knowing your enemies style and knowing your allies style.

Until Ryan steps up to the plate with something other than "The goal for the culture at the top is to respect a good game and see players who need extra help to win as poorer players", there is no clear cut method of play for us to follow. I know he doesn't feel the need to define this, but it is necessary.

perhaps if ryan could maybe define what he means by "top player". All we know so fare is that you must have more then 3 trophies.