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An Advisor's Reply (to the community)
Posted By: Grunvagr at 8:56 PM, Thursday June 26, 2008 EDT
***This blog concerns Grunvagr's views on the moderating issues in kdice, and what the community can do to help improve things***
First off, I want players to know that we do listen to the community. That's the whole point of having advisors in the first place - having someone to represent you, moderate offensive behavior and upsetting avatars and try to keep this place clean, overall.
Second, there needs to be better definitions of what is to be accepted and what is to be considered unacceptable, both in terms of avatar use / things players can say to others, etc.
Now, the problem arises where people want minor concerns moderated (demanding mutings or bannings of other players for minor offenses).
I want to make sure of one thing. Kdice has always been a relaxed community atmosphere, where players can relax, enjoy the game, chill with friends, joke around and enjoy each other's company. It should remain that way.
Now, that said, there needs to be some sort order to things where players cannot blatantly offend, harrass others, etc. That's where advisors come in.
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Here's the situation, summarized:
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* Certain players in the community want more moderating (more players banned, more mutings, etc)
* Certain players want the opposite, where they feel too much is being moderated and they feel discouraged by advisors for being TOO strict and not letting them enjoy the game and goof around with buddies as they have for many months / years.
That is the fine line and there should be no way we can't appease both groups. The key is simple: define what is acceptable and what is not.
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What needs to be done:
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>>> The best way to quickly change things for the better is the IDEA FORUM <<<
What we need are more things in place that HELP advisors to handle your complaints, look into problems, and address them if they indeed should be handled (by muting / banning, stripping an avatar away, etc)
So the purpose of this blog is to ask the community to help us help you.
For example: If someone cusses you out at a table, right now chat logs are nothing but copied and pasted as proof - something that could be forged easily and thus anyone can blame anyone (so if I'm not at a table and dont see it, just understand that an accusation IS an accusation only, not proof).
What we could and should do as a community is look into ways where we can document infractions easily - that way they can be handled quickly.
So for instance, an idea I can think up of right now that makes sense would be a chatlog saver - an option to save a chatlog in a game and post it later for advisors to review (something that would be saved as a file and thus better than just copy / pasting bad text on the forums - which spam the forums and dont make things look good for the beautiful game in general). Forum posts should be upbeat, or discussing life or the game, not about people cussing / name calling, etc - when that is SUCH A SMALL PART of the community.
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Here's another idea that I formally proposed which already has gotten some support:
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http://kdice.com/ideas/ideas/44761619?
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What can you do?
_____________________________________________
Ask not what kdice can do for you, ask what YOU can do for kdice ;)
Think up of good ideas to help moderate and suggest them. Also, compile a list of acceptable or unacceptable behavior or discuss that in a forum post.
_____________________________________________
What's the point??
_____________________________________________
The purpose of this blog is to acknowledge that advisors do listen to the community. But we want players to understand that we don't want to alienate half the community by moderating too severely, nor do we want to ignore people that are harrassed and demand help from us.
Let's discuss and take things from there. A list of acceptable and unacceptable behavior alone (you'd be surprised) is amazingly difficult to make. So lets work together to compile one.
***This is Grunvagr's views on the issue of moderating. If you agree or disagree, take it out on ME***
_____________________________________________
Reply away
First off, I want players to know that we do listen to the community. That's the whole point of having advisors in the first place - having someone to represent you, moderate offensive behavior and upsetting avatars and try to keep this place clean, overall.
Second, there needs to be better definitions of what is to be accepted and what is to be considered unacceptable, both in terms of avatar use / things players can say to others, etc.
Now, the problem arises where people want minor concerns moderated (demanding mutings or bannings of other players for minor offenses).
I want to make sure of one thing. Kdice has always been a relaxed community atmosphere, where players can relax, enjoy the game, chill with friends, joke around and enjoy each other's company. It should remain that way.
Now, that said, there needs to be some sort order to things where players cannot blatantly offend, harrass others, etc. That's where advisors come in.
_____________________________________________
Here's the situation, summarized:
_____________________________________________
* Certain players in the community want more moderating (more players banned, more mutings, etc)
* Certain players want the opposite, where they feel too much is being moderated and they feel discouraged by advisors for being TOO strict and not letting them enjoy the game and goof around with buddies as they have for many months / years.
That is the fine line and there should be no way we can't appease both groups. The key is simple: define what is acceptable and what is not.
_____________________________________________
What needs to be done:
_____________________________________________
>>> The best way to quickly change things for the better is the IDEA FORUM <<<
What we need are more things in place that HELP advisors to handle your complaints, look into problems, and address them if they indeed should be handled (by muting / banning, stripping an avatar away, etc)
So the purpose of this blog is to ask the community to help us help you.
For example: If someone cusses you out at a table, right now chat logs are nothing but copied and pasted as proof - something that could be forged easily and thus anyone can blame anyone (so if I'm not at a table and dont see it, just understand that an accusation IS an accusation only, not proof).
What we could and should do as a community is look into ways where we can document infractions easily - that way they can be handled quickly.
So for instance, an idea I can think up of right now that makes sense would be a chatlog saver - an option to save a chatlog in a game and post it later for advisors to review (something that would be saved as a file and thus better than just copy / pasting bad text on the forums - which spam the forums and dont make things look good for the beautiful game in general). Forum posts should be upbeat, or discussing life or the game, not about people cussing / name calling, etc - when that is SUCH A SMALL PART of the community.
_____________________________________________
Here's another idea that I formally proposed which already has gotten some support:
_____________________________________________
http://kdice.com/ideas/ideas/44761619?
_____________________________________________
What can you do?
_____________________________________________
Ask not what kdice can do for you, ask what YOU can do for kdice ;)
Think up of good ideas to help moderate and suggest them. Also, compile a list of acceptable or unacceptable behavior or discuss that in a forum post.
_____________________________________________
What's the point??
_____________________________________________
The purpose of this blog is to acknowledge that advisors do listen to the community. But we want players to understand that we don't want to alienate half the community by moderating too severely, nor do we want to ignore people that are harrassed and demand help from us.
Let's discuss and take things from there. A list of acceptable and unacceptable behavior alone (you'd be surprised) is amazingly difficult to make. So lets work together to compile one.
***This is Grunvagr's views on the issue of moderating. If you agree or disagree, take it out on ME***
_____________________________________________
Reply away
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Grunvagr wrote
at 8:50 AM, Saturday June 28, 2008 EDT I am doing something. What I'm doing is opening discussion to set the framework we need to better moderate and make those changes.
(read this post carefully, slowly, or twice, cuz I want you to hear my point) What MY STANCE on this issue is... is that there has to be a better framework, a better system for moderating in place. At the moment if someone reports another player for bad language, it's usually a forum post with text copied and pasted. That's horrible for the community as the forums shouldnt overflood with crap like that, and it's bad because as an advisor, I have to make a judgment call on whether or not to moderate on something which I DONT EVEN KNOW for sure was said in a game context or not (because it's text that anyone could have altered). What I want to do is set up some system for reporting - some system where chatlogs can be temporarily saved for 'official' review by advisors. SAVED TEXT, or preferably a .gif of a chatlog as a snapshot, in a way that we know isn't tampered with and was the original stuff said at a table. That alone would help SOOOOO much to moderate. Players could save a chatbox log of when someone harrassed them and have it as documented proof for review as it happened and not as 'he said she said' later in the forum. Does that make sense? That's my number one concern. I want to make it easy to report others, with a simple link to click or something along those lines. Right now the only way to know someone is harrassing is to BE PRESENT at a table when it happens, and I'm not on 24/7 ykno? The Point: I want to set up simple ways to record simple data easily - that will help advisors to moderate quickly and efficiently and in a way that makes everyone feel better about the game. That's the reason I haven't moderated more, so far. I want there to be a good system in place as a backbone for doing things justly. |
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Grunvagr wrote
at 8:58 AM, Saturday June 28, 2008 EDT leek, dude, I would love to see this game cleaned up more than anyone, really, I miss the glory days where I feel there were fewer pgas and more of a culture of top players that respected each other and (game to game) formed alliances that made sense, rather than walking into games with those ties already set.
I hate pgas with a passion. All of that... it's just that there's gotta be infrastructure to simplify moderating. That's the key. There's gotta be a good system for filtering through the crap to weed out the bad seeds. Don't get fired up AT me or Ry, but do stay fired up. Cuz this is a beautiful game, it really is. It just has a few problems with cheaters. All major sports have cheating from Spygate in the nfl, to steroid use left and right, etc - but that doesn't mean that people are losing interest in the Superbowl. This is a beautiful game. There's shit to fix, yes. There's definitely shit to fix. Let's work together, that's all I'm saying. I want the kbeautiful game played cleanly more than anyone, believe that. |
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Cal Ripken wrote
at 10:14 AM, Saturday June 28, 2008 EDT Aint nobody played my account but me.
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Ryan wrote
at 10:03 PM, Saturday June 28, 2008 EDT How long is leekstep going to go on with this same shit? I can't even read his full posts. Say something interesting instead of you're disrespectful garbage - I'm almost feeling harassed! But then again I'm tolerant of asses like this. Can someone tell leekstep I stopped listening a long time ago?
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Wicked! wrote
at 1:35 AM, Sunday June 29, 2008 EDT Leek, Ryan said he stopped listening a long time ago.
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lovekdicetodeath wrote
at 3:09 AM, Sunday June 29, 2008 EDT "Its a question of how much of certain behaviors is acceptable."
"Ultimately, a police officer doesn't throw someone in his squad car if someone says the N word - likewise I, personally, do not mute a player for saying a racist word (for one instance)." if it is a question of how much, then what system do you have to keep track of repeat offenders? "In short I want to suggest that we lean towards being tolerant. If we want to make specific rules, with all of the different cultures that play kdice I don't think we'll ever agree." i disagree. racism is racism regardless of culture. a lot of fortune 500 companies who hired people from different ethic background have ONE single rule against racism. "There has to be some leeway" shoudl the kdice community as a whole decide what that leeway should be? or you are the only one making the decision? "leek, dude, I would love to see this game cleaned up more than anyone" unfortunately, your action suggest the otherwise. this purpose of this post claimed to be asking for our opinions and suggestions. but all i see is someone defending their own point of view instead of listening with an open heart and having an open, unbaised discussion. it's fake democracy. |
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Wicked! wrote
at 10:03 AM, Sunday June 29, 2008 EDT Last I checked....this was never a democracy.
Ryan's game, Ryan's rules. Simple as that. |
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lovekdicetodeath wrote
at 1:57 PM, Sunday June 29, 2008 EDT it seems grun is in charge instead of ryan though........
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nuflis wrote
at 4:10 PM, Sunday June 29, 2008 EDT Nice avatar Wicked!
;) |
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fiero600 wrote
at 4:10 PM, Sunday June 29, 2008 EDT how?
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