Oh wait, I checked bivo's again, its you Jurgen, you -post him. Last time it was Pursey.

Oh and you should -post everyone else too who you don't like because that shows how ignorant you are as a mod. Have fun.

Anyways Jurgen, you're saying "he's spreading lies" and then you ban him. Address the lies and counter them then? You are usually very vocal when it comes to explaining why you ban people. Why not this time? So Gurgi can't be banned for cheating cause you don't have proof, but you can -post someone because they're addressing what they see as problems with your modship?

I thought you never did any modding decisions based on emotions?

Apig I can counter all his lies but whatâ??s the point of discussing all this here. Itâ??s what some of the people with a grudge would love, including him who begs for some attention. Iâ??ve left him post more than long enough, hoping he would have some dignity left. I was wrong there so the â??post is well deserved.
Iâ??m going to copy some of the most blatant lies but honestly thereâ??s not a sentence where thereâ??s not at least something thatâ??s wrong or a lie. I could even split up certain things but Iâ??m not going to bother separating every lie: thereâ??s 3 or more in one paragraph sometimes.

Being in that "circle" means you agree with him ("NEVER EVER EVER un-ban a player I've banned), or he will "have a stern talk with Ryan about it ****never said or did that

(I have proof) that Ali should be removed if I agreed because he pushed the whole "you can't say 'cunt'" or it's an insta-ban ****Ali was not going to be removed if BDK agreed

Jurg said he would "Never promote that whiney annoying kid****never said anything like that

Once he started banning people that were his (jurg) friends he decided to make up lies to Ryan as to why the mod should be removed.****not true

; and telling new mods he was the "head mod"****not true

You asked me a couple times to let him play on lower-level tables. ****not true, the opposite was true in fact, told him to always ban
I told you it was a bad idea for new players to this site. ****not true
But you said you had Ryan's ear, so I gave in because you said you were head mod. ***more BS

Thatâ??s about 8 blatant lies, I could go into it more if it was worth my time but itâ??s not.

Then he writes this because itâ??s obvious that he tries to get a -post

â??I'm surprised you haven't -chat and -post me like you have in the past when people don't agree with you...â??

My response:
Nah, it's hilarious to read your lies for now. But if you keep spreading those lies, I will remove chat and post of course. It seems like you're trying to push it with obvious trolling and lies so I will ban you and then you can say "SEE, he's banning me because he doesn't like criticism!"

Every time I see you play or comment, I think about that time you said "don't worry, if you de-mod me, i'll leave. I won't be a kid like shann" and then I laugh real hard.

Have fun playing
So he steps up his game and writes even worse lies, not just about modding, trying to go below the belt and attack my personal integrity

I was there when you laughed that he did it. ****bs

stop telling people that you don't creep on "hot" "cut" "looks good in a bikini" dudes on kdice. Embarrassing the standpoint got in between you being a legit mod. **** bs

Fact: Jurg asked me to not defriend him on FB because he wanted to (or already had) friend requested my "hot friends". I thought you were married, bud... ****lies, actually he stayed on my friend list for months even when he once told me in chat that he claimed he blocked me. But thatâ??s just stupidy, the biggest lie is the hot friends part
Jurg knew of it too, but told me to leave it alone and that he would handle it. No ban.****lies

He was pissed, but I was following the guidelines that I agreed to when I was asked to be a mod. I did what any mod would do. I was actually VERY lenient since I banned him for a matter of minutes. I was told I was too easy on him ****lies
Iâ??ve caught him saying more lies in chat but he has no chat yet so that shows Iâ??m giving him as much freedom of speech as possible. But you all know that freedom of speech stops when you start lieing or cross certain lies. Freedom of post is not absolute and I let him be pathetic and salty on here for as long as I thought was OK.

I was going to entertain this thread until it reached 100 but I have a feeling it will get there by its own now so Iâ??m not bothering to respond anymore. For the record Iâ??m also not going to resign because the same old 5 biased people make a fuss about it. As long as the silent majority appreciates what I do or the hundred players whose opinion matter to me the most donâ??t give me hints that I should resign or when I personally feel Iâ??m still doing well, I wonâ??t resign. Believe it or not but trust me that I have more than enough self-evaluation and personal integrity and concerns about how the kdice community is thinking about me to resign immediately when I felt I shouldnâ??t be a mod anymore.

Sorry to disappoint the people who are holding a grudge because of some ban or other dispute in the past and are desperately hoping to hurt me or get me to resignâ?¦itâ??s not working so far. Btw, it's also both a good sign to me and funny to me that most of the people I ever banned or warned are actually cool with me and at least partially agree the ban was deserved...but then there's that handful of people that will never forget they got banned or demodded or can't get a banned account unbanned or lost pride in some other way :).

Oh, but that settles it then. Just mark a bunch of statements with "**lies" and "**bs" and state that anyone who has complaints bears grudges and make you laugh, and the court is settled.

I've never seen you even entertain the thought of you being wrong, so I was just curious to if you'd at least admit to one single wrongdoing this time or do any of the self-evaluation youre talking about. No dice.

Master supression technique class dismissed.

oh this is too easy so I have to respond...I was wrong about suggesting BDK to Ryan as a mod candidate :D

I don't claim to be perfect apig and I've never claimed to be. I've admitted to making mistakes or making a ban too lengthy, I've said sorry to people. I just don't feel the need to find examples right now. All I try to do is make the best possible decision and when in doubt I don't ban. What I also won't do is defend something I don't believe in.

as usual you will want the last word so feel free to spin something else into "jurgen sucks at everything but he claims to be perfect and will ban everyone who disagrees with him being perfect and/or the supreme leader"

man you guys are hilarious. I've tried really hard to avoid this thread. I feel like I failed now.

What exactly is the argument that is being presented? Why exactly should jurgen be removed as mod? Is it because of a bunch of stuff Eric and Jurgen discussed in the past and whether or not they are lies or not, does that effect his ability to moderate? I did lots of shady things in my past, does that effect my ability to moderate? I think one of the main arguments is that jurgen lets his friends pga but then other people aren't allowed to do the same? Who exactly are his friends that are pga-ing?

I see that fiero is upset, but really that's mostly because he lost his main account and is a bit of a weasel, I'd probably be doing the same things in his position. I don't think any of the other perma-bans are unwarranted. Off the top of my head the only real permanent bans I can think of are for Shannon and Yohann, everyone else is most likely probably playing on an alt. What's the issue there? I played on an alt for years, and jurgen wasn't even the one who banned me.

The way I see it, come up with some solutions. Who should be a mod instead? What exactly should jurgen be doing differently that he is not doing? I was definitely in the skeptical crowd when I first learned he was made moderator all those years ago (nevermind how I felt about when Thrax was made a moderator), but I don't think jurgen is someone that can't be reasoned with, and I don't think he's doing an awful job.

Unfortunately, given the tools we are given, there's only so much that can be done before system changes need to be made.

very good post int but now people will probably accuse you even more of sexual favours to me :)

but you raise some excellent points there

I've always been open to discussing, regarding bans or other stuff. No one that ever got banned by me or needed my help with something or had some sort of "dispute" with me can claim I didn't spend time on their issue. I may not always have changed my mind or the other person may not always have been happy with the final situation but everyone certainly got the time that the situation deserved.

So I'm still available for anyone that needs to talk about something. Maybe I'm not around as often as I used to be you can still find me at a table or post in my reviews. There's also my email ([email protected]) or my facebook (only for cute girls with problems actually).

Anyway, maybe now something good can come out of this thread thanks to Int's intelligent intervention.

For me personally, there was at least one positive thing that I learned from this thread already or maybe I should say more confirmation of something that I noticed months or years ago: Veta has become a successful and mature entrepreneur :)

@inty: do you remember them days I trolled you? That was fun, I like how you found it funny.
@jurgen: you remind me of an umbrella in a storm

JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF BDK'S LIES:

beevoh wrote
at 5:36 AM, Sunday January 17, 2016 EST
I honestly expected more out of your response. I was the one that banned and tracked (via IP, as you asked) shann/agentmulder/etc/etc. You asked me a couple times to let him play on lower-level tables. I told you it was a bad idea for new players to this site. But you said you had Ryan's ear, so I gave in because you said you were head mod.

This is in stark contrast to what he wrote at the time when he was a mod. He knowingly allowed Agent Mulder to sit 3-4 proxy accounts because he thought it might be fun.

http://www.kdice.com/discussion/topics/45159255?

And in the same thread:

BigDaddyKane wrote
at 10:48 PM, Monday December 1, 2014 EST
It's funny how much you guys think Jurg has control over me.

==============================================
The tl;dr version: I agree with you apig. It's annoying when someone just writes **bs but refuses to substantiate their arguments / actions. BDK is a bad victim for you to frame your arguments around because he was guilty of exactly the same thing when he was abusing his mod powers. IMO I think he's used up enough chances and a ban is justified. I think it goes way beyond jurgen just silencing someone who disagrees with him.

In some ways jurgen brings it on himself. He is too lenient. He gives people 50 chances and then when he finally pulls the trigger it could be for something relatively minor. These people have just come to expect leniency so they harass him ad nauseam and then when he finally bans them they feel victimized. It's dumb.