It's called speaking from the heart. It's kinda neat, you should check it out some time.

Hi Kate!!! :)

@Louis

I don't play this game anymore and haven't for quite some time. There has always been OTF here which is, in my opinion, the less harmful little brother to PGA. That being said, you mentioned something about "not knowing real first names" or something to that effect. It occurs to me that after all these years you still don't get it.

DiceWars is a pretty simple strategy game of chance. The gameplay can be learned in minutes and somewhat mastered in hours or a couple days. That's easy, and somewhat boring.

KDice is a multiplayer strategy game that includes a social aspect. Success in any game like this requires relationships that, at the very least, garner you equal footing on the higher tables. Some of the best games I've played here were on 10K's where all 7 of us knew each other well. The moves on the board almost mattered for nothing, it was all about the chat box. For some reason you still don't get that and instead of conforming to the generally accepted norm here, you've spent years bitching about the same subject over and over again.

Yes, there is OTF on the higher tables.

No, it's never going to be eliminated.

Yes, you have the ability to not be a prick and be a part of the OTF cluster fuck.

Yes, you will get fucked a few times before being accepted into the clique.

Blatant PGA can be dealt with and curbed to an extent, and blatant PGA is wrong. OTF is equivalent to respect and standing within the community. Most players don't have a problem earning that respect. Apparently you can't or won't...

I'm bored during my lunch break so I guess I'll write a short essay on otf

I'll start by saying that some otf is so exclusive, so repetitve and so "not game related" that's it's just plain old pga (some guys shouldn't kid themselves they just otf but nvm). That type of otfpga is not tolerated and will be banned.

OTF is very common in most sports, both in individual sports and in team sports. What do I mean? Well that competing players adapt their playstyle and their strategy based on which opponent they face. Why? to get their best possible chance at winning. You can't control the field you play on, or the ball you play with, or the Kdice start you get, but you sure as hell can adapt your ingame decissions/strategy.

Examples:

* tennis players play more defensive or more aggressive based on their opponent's skill. coaches often scout beforehand and advise to use more slice or drop volleys or whatever, based on the opponent's weak points.

I'll just add Gurgi here to see if he searched through this post for his name

* in cycling, for example Tour de France, when a few cyclists escape and have a lead, the main group will decide to chase them intensively or not depending on the position in the leaderboard of the cyclists in the front group.

* in many team sports like soccer, the best players of the enemy team are often targeted extra hard by defenders, in order to shut down their game.

Basically in any game, you adapt your gameplan based on the habbits of your opponents.

Why? because you want to win.

To wrap this up: I'm not saying otf is always fair. but it's human nature to adapt your gameplay based on what you remember from pervious games. Noobs that cry how unfair otf is will probably have decided to not hit another noob that they had a fun truce with 2 games before and go for someone they never played before instead.

I've seen plenty of alts or even real noobs do well on the higher tables. You don't really NEED otf to be succesful and yes you can survive on the higher tables without knowing anyone there. But as with any other game or sport, the wins get harder and harder to get the moment you climb the ladder. Does anyone really think that a new player or a new team will get an easier time in any sport when they start playing a higher division?

Personally I would advise players to play the higher stakes, especially at the end of the month. I look at it from another perspective: at the end of the month, some of the less skilled players finally managed to accumulate a few k and try their luck on the higher tables. So the proportion of less skilled players is a bit higher on the last few days so it's actually easier to win a 5k late in the month, compared to mid month (when it's basically mostly better skilled players that play). Food for Louis's thoughts :)

I can confirm all of which you said including the higher number of less skilled players. Though I think some of your examples are not really holding. The biking example would mean that 1st, 2nd and 3rd should battle any time they are seated in order to have the other 2 lose points. Instead they tend to team up and roll for the win - that's not fighing for 1st. The leader very often is not attacked harder than others - the opposite is true unfortunately.

So I advice to not sit high tables at the end of the month if any player from the top is seated (insert a rank here, I'd suggest 30). You might take the risk if you sit teal - nobody else can join and you might be fine if there's only 1. However, you will not know until it is too late who's using an alt there.

I'm not even blaming the top for doing something unusual there. Some pretty open truces are missed by less experienced player, some chat is not observed and some bias is, as you elaborated, human nature. It is still not doing the game any good.

The moment alts are used to carry on relationships invisible to others it gets more difficult.

The recently observed line "Paul check your messages" on a 2k and an undeserved shot at 2nd for a player that did not flag the neighbouring 1st in the following game certainly crosses the line. It was 4 regulars fucking each other so I didn't bother reporting. As long as the shit is kept away from the new guys I don't care. Probably I didn't get a joke since all other observers thought it funny (similar to 2 regulars trucing in turn 1 to lose to a lv 26 player).


In a larger context it is not a good strategy for the survival of the game to rip of the new kids on higher tables at the end of the month. They got there after long work. Running into things they don't understand they won't come back. Ifi, as an example, is playing a better strategy giving advantage to new faces. They pay back on 500 next month usually and they are more likely to return to 2k than if they were sent back to 100 in 1 game. And seriously, it doesn't matter if you lead by 60k or 40k - nobody does 40k in a day in fair games (the examples found won 60% of their games on high tables on one day failing the next few, a story speaking for itself). Still farming and dom-draining is enforced on the new ones.

Ripping of people that risk a 2k at the end of the month (most could have gone there a lot earlier but were afraid of going back to 100) will not have them go to these tables earlier next month.

What I meant with the biker example: if a nobody is ahead and no harm for the rankings, he could get a free pass. If a competitor would try then 1st would chase him.

1 and 2 in Kdice will not always be on hostile terms but they surely won't give each other presents or free wins either. Usually they are smart enough not to be too hostile since a pge will probably cost them more than they could gain and so another competitor could benefit (mutual gain).

When a noob has had a great start and is looking like most likely first, the regulars won't give up 1st as easily compared to a situation where 1st or 2nd overall is in a similar good situation. Why? pure human nature logic. I'll speak for myself to explain. If I'm in a great situation to win and someone I know for years is doing all he can to ruin my win, I will focus on him ingame first (bringing him down with me). Also in next games, I won't flag to him quickly either when he's in first. Smart people think long term and work on their reputation (hit me and I'll make you regret it, truce me and you won't regret it). With a newb, the chance of regretting the attack on him is much lower, hence newbies not often getting the easy win.

and there you have it: otf is born

Louis, I can't agree with your assessment of "ripping the new kids will make sure they won't come back". The top scoring players on KDice have changed 10 times over in the past decade. New players have come and gone. I don't even recognize most of the top 25 anymore.....so new players MUST BE having success at the higher levels. It may be a small clique of players from month to month, but the clique is ever-changing.

Anyone can infiltrate the high tables....it just takes time. And as stated before you most definitely will get fucked over for a while up there. Just go with the flow and keep trying.

When I started playing some of the biggest egos in KDice history were involved. Guys like Monte, das, Sam, Leek, Fiero....to name a few. Eventually other huge egos like Shad, Gurgi and Zoid were dominating the monthly play. I had no problem fitting in with any of these groups. You simply have to be socially adept at dealing with people.

Good advice: Stay away from this site for the rest of your life

@nunes: I would if it would seriously get me. It doesn't though. Thanks for the advice.

@Thraxle: Some changed, some use new accounts. I don't believe in people networking their path to 1st in a few months or having accounts scoring top 10 or nothing.

@Jurgen: True, it works that way. Still I sometimes miss the rivalry between the high ranks, though your explanation does fit. Nevertheless, noob 1st, me 2nd and the rival in 3rd is much better than him and me going 1/2 and I lose the roll...

Thinking a little furhter, if you gave 1st to the noob he'll stay and take 3/4 the next 6 games. However, very few play it that way. One of them being Ifi (and Toms occasionally) - others complain they get so many favors. Plus kicking the noob back to lower tables, you slow down game-starts.

Besides the explanable otf on higher tables that imho gets out of control as the end of the month comes closer I still think it does go beyond just that. But then, as Thraxle said, you just have to find a way to deal with it and retain the fun for you - because basically that and avoiding work is the reason you come here.

A month later I come to the same conclusion and will stay off this game for the rest of this month. Greed (e.g. 1st with 340k and an exceptional lead still farming like mad), teamplay and just plain assholery are taking the fun out of higher tables in the last week.

There is hardly fun on 0, 100 and 500 tables anyway. A monthly 1 week break is the solution.

Well since you're trying to bullshit me here I'll just have to point out that your idea of "farming like mad" is hilariously misguided. Next time I guess I'll just kill your middle bitchflag outright instead of taking 1 low stack.