:)

exactly playa. you can win 5 meaningless rolls and the 5v3 connect u lose is game over. luck stats are a base indicator at best.

Guys, the world is not as black as it used to be. It might not even be as dark-grey as I saw it when I started this thread. However, it is by no means white.

I agree that things have been worse on high tables. Still, towards the end of the month when you see a higher number of non-regular players appearing among the permanent guests, there is the same stuff going on. "Ups, missed you didn't hit me for 4 turns. Sorry, it is 4v1 now. You get 5th, the rest won't lose points". If that "you" was a permanent 2k-player it had been a silent truce and would not have been missed.

I am not claiming there is blatant pga or teamplay. Like stated by others, those things have been handled pretty well by the mods. Thus it is hard to find a big amount of evidence of big time cheating. This is a success and good achievement. My initial idea (certainly written in anger as stated earlier) could have been discussed as an approach to reduce the favors exchanged or to open the field for new players. I am not sure the idea is any good or useful regarding the issues of "protecting the addicts" and "opening the medal ranks" (make it top 25 or top 75 - that's details). I thank you for an open and constructive discussion though - even if the outcome is, that this thought was total rubbish.

#I_Love_Louis

your evaluation of the situation in your last post was pretty good

I don't think it will be a good idea but I got it while reading your post. Maybe on the last day we should open a 2k table that is specifically open to players who played less than 5 2ks that month. Or maybe only people who are currently not in top 100. I dunno exactly yet what the best criteria would be but the idea is to create a place for the "scared" people to try out the 2ks (or even 5ks) on the last day.

The benefits are that they can gamble away their points so maybe someone can get into top 100 anyway thanks to playing this table. They can also sit, knowing that they won't be joined by 1st, 2nd 7th and 11th in ranks for exmaple. I know that sitting with all these higher ranked players is not a problem by definition but I can imagine that it would be intimidating for most newcomers and they might not risk playing 2k because of it

Personally I think it might even be riskier for a newcomer to play this table instead of the big boys 2k because I'm pretty sure I know most of the potentially over-friendly duo's in the top 50 but there could be way more problems with cheaters with a few thousand points, simply because I haven't seen those on the higher tables a lot so their pga hasn't been detected yet.

I agree wiht both points Jurgz. Its great to give them a last day reprieve and i do think that knowing your not gonna play against ranks 1-50 majority of the time is nice. that said as much as ppl tend to whine about PGA and things i got my first cube thius month and saw none of it. 139 reg games mostly 2k +. I would be far more happy to sit on a table of qazi, inty, April even players like STJ where you know what you are getting than a table with complete madness and total unknowns. I run poker tournaments IRL and id rather sit a newb down with my best guys than my fish to learn proper strategy and gamesmanship than other newer players and/or unknowns. just my 2 cents.

@Jurgen: Nice idea, really. Make it last 5 (or 3) days instead of 1 and put the limit to 10 games instead of 5 so people really can get the taste. It is fun to win 7k in just one game. Way to make people try more often (I know what I'm talking about) and given that selection it will be "new" winners, not the regular ones.

@Cameron: You are right to a certain point. The madness is the reason anybody wants to leave 0 and 100 asap. However, if you don't get the strategy behind your losses on 2k-tables (and usually you don't), it will make you leave. If, by chance and seriously no offense intended, the winners are 2nd and 15th of the leaderboard and you didn't get the "obvious" trucing moves in turns 2 and 3 you feel cheated. If those people greet each other with names you don't know (referring to alts or real life contacts) you feel cheated even more. Even if - as most of the time - there was nothing beyond a little otf at most going on. You don't even have to be as paranoid as I am at times to get the impression of a group ripping of the strangers (slightly exaggerating here).

So - I like the idea of having "non-professional-tables" at the end of the month to try something new.

Lou we can be friends ;)

I agree with everything Louis says.

This has become a really thoughtful thread. good work all.

and yeah, this 'non-pro table' end-of-month thing sounds like a great addition to the game, and a nice way to deal with the issue of newer folk feeling intimidated by a group of people who know each other, say hi, then read each others' moves closely and nail the game together