Ps. I have never been to belgium before but outside of the city centers it felt like Greece...The Greece I knew when I was 13 which was 15 years ago now so I guess that comparison is not as accurate as it could be but that's what I felt when I saw it. I also had a long talk with a lawyer from Belgium on my flight over to DC and while I was trying to be nice and say Brussels was really nice he kept saying that if you go out of the city centers you see what's really going on...Again not my words his.

The US is having tough times too. So I don't see how European social democracy is to blame for deteriorating economic conditions worldwide. Everyone is suffering, socialist and capitalist countries alike. At least in Europe people have a safety net to fall back on in tough times. I find it hard to believe people in Western European countries have suffered a greater diminution in their standard of living than those in the US.

Boogy; I don't get what your on about by trying to say that these entitlements are inseparable with democracy but I wish you would explain.

Why is it necessary to obligate me to your morality; why are you unable to work towards your goal without usurping my property? Please explain; because it sounds pretty ridiculous to me.

If I thought the playing field was even I would be in deadcode's camp 90% of the time, but information isn't evenly distributed and the "ruling" class has far more power than the anti-social justice crowd acknowledges or admits.

Until we break the cycle of crony capitalism and corporate rule we won't have truly free or efficient markets. Give the masses mobility first, worry about the haves afterwards. This isn't a call for handouts as much as opportunities.

Sam are you so sure that you are looting the haves? I'm a struggling business owner and I've seen my taxes increased and now it costs more for me to hire workers. I planned on hiring an employee but the health care fiasco has me unsure I can afford it. My accountant has advised that I wait it out.

The truth is that this is a common experience with all business owners at this point. The costs are getting higher and the cause of the costs is government. I ask; why is this what you call justice. It certainly doesn't feel like justice to me. It feels like being robbed. Look at the state of things; is this what you hoped to achieve? The current state of liberalism is suicide; suicide by the same greed and corruption as the social conservatives. You let a rich politician make you believe that he was going to steal from the rich and give to the poor. You have been had.

No, I think the Dem's in general have failed for the last 4 years. I don't like the direction we are heading is right, I also don't think the direction the Repub leadership is a better direction, I tend to feel it would be even worse. If the Dem's had balls they might be able to really change the dynamic in DC, but that is wishful thinking at this point.

The country needs a melding of Obama's 2008 ideals and feelings of hope and change and combine that with a real honest assessment of what drives our economy with serious nods to Ron Paul and the libertarians.

Our economy is driven by health care and defense spending. These are not the sectors you want as the cores of your economy if you expect to have any type of truly free and efficient markets.

Your argument that government is inherently and irredeemably corrupt always and everywhere is not supported by empirical facts. No political scientist would corroborate your claim. Corruption exists to varying degrees in all human organizations; some more than in others. You really think medicaire is administered in an entirely corrupt manner?

Deadcode let me ask you a question. Why don't we live as atomic individuals entirely free of social obligations and institutions? Is "war of all against all" really your political utopia?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellum_omnium_contra_omnes

And to be honest people who don't like to pay taxes are just greedy. Its an ugly quality.

So 47% of the country is greedy?