i followed it the second time through.

but, sam, the issue is that a lot of religions do NOT preach tolerance, since they involve absolute truths. they preach my way or the highway.

Love the sinner not the sin. that is tolerance of sorts.

But we are the ones to decide? Humans are individuals still right?

The absolute truth is part of (the imperfect), it is something that should be sent down from the divine but we only have humans interpretations of it.

Religion is imperfect, but the true point of of religion is the better understanding of the universe around us and accepting that what we cannot know might be possible. Faith isn't something to be derided IMO, it should be admired when it is directed in a manner that helps. Blind faith in hate speaking morons that just want your money or you to strap C4 and kill people, looking at you ali ;-), is just stupid.

The bible contradicts itself, passage preach love and tollerance of all men, why can't people accept that Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, Krishna et. al. all preached tollerance of other humans as the core tennat of their prophecies. We have allowed man to corrupt what was meant to be the divination of the all mighty for his own purpose.

We need to stand up and fight back agains fundalmentalism, because that is the perverting what is good to be used for something that is bad.

I don't believe in the typical idea of god, white beard big dude pearly gates etc..., but I feel no need to believe that there isn't a higher power or unifying force to the universe. I am not pulling the agnostic cop-out that I don't have the information to decide. I am just saying that ultimetly what I believe doesn't matter, there is or is not a higher unifying spiritual power in the universe. I am going to stop as this is begining to ramble.

let me see if i follow you. What you are saying is that there are 2 common types of religion. 1st type: Religious dotrine is manipulated to suite the purposes of its followers or a few of its followers. this being the bad type.
2nd type: Followers affect change in their life to follow the doctrines of the religion. In many cases good type.

am i close?

I think there is religion, and spirituality. One is ruled by man the other by faith. They both can be positive forces for change and both can lead to attrocities but one has the focus on the individual the other on a "divine" orginization that is ruled by imperfect humans. No man is divine, I have met people that claim to be enlightened only to see extreem ego, I have met others that made no claims but were obviously of a level of spiritual peace and understanding that far exceeds even the farthest outliers.

Orginized religion should be used for community building and service. Spirituality should help provide the faith we need to allow us to live out lives with so much unknown.

to be fair the bible doesn't rail against homosexuality.

paul rails against homosexuality.

only other place you'll find that is in leviticus. and if you follow leviticus, you should still be sacrificing two turtledoves every time you menstruate so i think we can toss that chapter out the window.

sodom and gomorrah are an example of non-paul biblical condemnation of homosexuality... along with all the other sexual perversion that was apparently rampant there.

i just dont understand how people can read through the whole bible and think that the God of the Bible condones anything outside of sex between a husband and wife.

"Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral." --hebrews 13:4

yes, but to be fair, you can't use the god of the old testament, can you?

unless you're one of those old schoolers who doesn't eat pork or shellfish or wear clothing of mixed fabric. cause of the god of the bible hates all of those too.

i hope you don't make anything your wife sits on during her menstrual cycle ceremoniously unlcean for seven days as leviticus 15:20 commands.

cause jesus came so we wouldn't have to do those ridiculous things any more, right? well, you can't pick and chose which parts to throw out unless you are the divine himself, right? or else it just becomes one of those cases of hiding your narrow minded prejudices behind god. or more specifically, hiding your narrow minded prejudices behind paul's old school doing of the same.

Im pretty sure that Jesus was pretty clear on which parts of the old testament are out dated.

happy, from my perspective you seem to be the one that is picking and choosing. whereas i am trying to gain a picture of God as what the entire Bible reveals him to be (he is the same yesterday today and tomorrow, after all), you seem to be making a God of your own choosing, by eliminating any scriptures that disagree with what you feel is silly.

paul says something that is offensive in the 21st century? well, that doesnt count as biblical. genesis and leviticus tell stories of things that are ludicrous? well, that doesnt count as God either. he changed. the author of hebrews says that sex should only happen between a married couple? well thats not right either.

so please tell me what books of the bible i am limited to when i am trying to discuss christianity with you. otherwise im just afraid that whatever i say that contradicts your beliefs will simply be branded a part of the bible that isnt worth your time.