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My review of kDice
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leekstep wrote
at 4:27 PM, Friday February 1, 2008 EST
After not investigating the high tables for six months, I was really surprised with what I found at kDice over the last several weeks.
I should begin by describing where kDice was last summer: There were only a few people who would engage in constant closed-group PGAs including players such as Integral, Rnd, Montecarlo, Wishbone, Dasfury, MadHat Sam, Mona (AnMoNiDa), Longhair (lastmurti), RussianMike, TwoFast (cosmicomics), and some others. There was a new kind of cheater that was beginnning to blossom who would essentially PGA with anyone including XLUCKX, XCRobin, Linch, and some others. I dont want anyone to get caught up in the semantics of the term "PGA". The best definition of "PGA" is someone who you wont attack or are very reluctant to attack, even though you dont have an in-game truce with them, and it is clearly your most strategic move to attack. If you are basing you decision not to attack someone on your pre-existing relationship, which has nothing to do with map strategy or chat strategy, then you are guilty of PGA. Well when I came back in December I immediately investigated the behavior of the guys I knew who cheated. I was almost always able to predict who the PGAs wouldn't attack before even looking at the board. It was obvious that most of the old PGA friendships were still active. It was also easy to spot the new PGA cliques that had developed, such as Nexon L3xy and Grisu. They behaved in the typical PGA group behavior, not attacking each other and were extremely reluctant to ally with players outside of their clique, especially if it meant having to attack one of their team members. Was I was more surprised to learn was that this social PGA dynamic had become far more pervasive and complex. Almost all of the players at the high tables were showing very strong biases towards their friends, but the friendships werent restricted to small defined cliques as much as they had in the past. I guess it is only natural that the few people who often meet at the high level tables developed larger social network. You could find one member of The Cabal who would always cooperate with another member of a different group even though the relationship did not extend to all members of the other group. For someone who hasn't watched 1000 games at the high tables in a month, the only thing you could be fairly certain of is that the n00b or the guy with a low score was almost always going to have trouble finding allies and winning the game, regardless of his placement on the map or actions in the chatbox. (I'm talking about Mordred and the many other players who were good on the map and in the chatbox, but didnt have the long term friendships that it takes to do well at the high tables) >>> I think the PGA groups developed as a reaction to the Cabal (and memebers of The Cabal argue that they formed in response to previous PGA groups). Team Play is just a natural development in reaction to facing Team Play. There have been tons of people who blatanly and openly PGA or proxy (one user sitting two accounts at the table). Ryan was unwilling to define the rules or moderate the game in any manner during this period. When members would complain publicly about the Team Play he would typiclaly respond "get a life" or if they complained publicy about breaking the rules he would respond "what rules". Ryan was not interested in protecting the competitive integrity of each table. In fact Ryan even sanctioned and approved the use of alternate accounts to throw favors for your friends, where in return you could earn favors for your primary account. He called this "table image". I tried to police the game by reporting these people, making freinds with them and exposing their methods, even cheating to beat The Cabal. Ryan saw the evidence of people intentionally fixing the monthy competitions to, by flagfest or PGA. (flagfest video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1at-xanEzXg&eurl=) Ryan did nothing to protect the integrity of the monthly competition. These guys still have 1st place trophies. I have publicly stated in the forum in the past that I have engaged in PGA, Team Play, Proxy Play, Giving my password to Integral and Rnd, use of vulgarity, basically everything that could be seen as wrong. My intentions were always to BEAT THE CABAL. I was not secret about my methods or intentions of beating the cabal. Ryan did nothing to stop me. The only response I got from Ryan for these offenses was that he asked me not to talk about cheating in the forums, because it would discourage new members. Then this month Ryan got into a fight with rnd. The first contact I got from Ryan this month was a 219,000pts penalty because rnd mouthed off to him using my account. The 219,000 pt penalty wasnt some thoughtful analysis of fair play. Ryan was sending a message to rnd. Ryan gave me the same amount of points as rnd. Ryan even told me that the penalty was unfair but I should get over my ego and accept it because it was important that he send a message to rnd. I dont think this is a good reflection of the competitive atmosphere in kDice. It basically ruined the monthly competition. But I could almost forgive Ryan for hating rnd, because rnd is evil. Ryan told me to find new friends and he may be right! But then Ryan even further soiled the monthly competition. After he saw Montecarlo finish top 4 in 91% of his games and "earn" 50,000 pts in a few hours yesterday, Ryan arbitrarily asked Montecarlo let someone else win the month or face a penalty! Ryan didnt give montecarlo a penalty for cheating, despite how obvious it was. Ryan just asked Montecarlo TO TAKE A DIVE and let someone else win, because it would look bad if someone from The Cabal won again. Ryan has proven that he does not respect the competitive integrity of each game, and he has proven that he does not respect the competitive integrity of the monthly competition. I strong suggest that Ryan delegate the role of moderator to someone who can be more competent and effective than he has been. |
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5er wrote
at 12:09 PM, Sunday February 3, 2008 EST a) it's Ryan's game
b) given that it's Ryan's game, he can do what he wants with it. c) enough is enough, for fuck's sake. let it go. |
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Stoolpidgeon wrote
at 1:23 PM, Sunday February 3, 2008 EST 5er.
A. well we were doing a good job ignoring him B. didn't you get the memo that said C. "for fuck sakes don't bump this thread" |
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leekstep wrote
at 8:56 AM, Monday February 4, 2008 EST Monte arent you back yet?
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Chomsky wrote
at 12:22 PM, Monday February 4, 2008 EST pretty new player here...
imo this kind of thing wants me to close down my account before i devote any more time to this game. with that being said, im glad it has been brought to the surface. the only answer as i see it is to impose a KDice constitution on cheating; what is allowed, whats not allowed and go on from there. once that is in place this all goes away into the history books. i have dumped my box of dices into the harbor |
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LionGazoz wrote
at 4:16 PM, Monday February 4, 2008 EST i have a solution for fair competition in kdice but i fear - no one will listen
how to make kdice more competitive instead of "score based" tables - we need a two level based table a free - qualification level --- level 1 and a closed - competition level ---- level 2 u can only join a competition level (2) if u won level (1) t open it for example: level 1 table (open for everyone but no points no scores) level 2 table (only open for players who won last level 1 or 2 game) as long as u not win, u keep playing level 1 and don´t get scores and don´t lose score after a victory u can play level 2 and get the chance to score but u go back to level 1 if u not win and ONLY WINNER GETS POINTS OR QUALIFY FOR COMPETITION - 2nd, 3rd, 4th places and flags are valueless and u get more points if u win couple of level 2 table games in a row: 1 point for winning level 2 1 time 7 points for winning level 2 2 timesin a row 49 points for winning level 2 3 times in a row but as soon as u NOT BECOME 1st u bump back to level 1 this system would block pga...and even more the whole flagging shit but the current free and open system makes the whole ranks valueless but i fear again...nooone listen... |
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HanseHase wrote
at 5:36 AM, Tuesday February 5, 2008 EST that is a very long text...
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Leek Step wrote
at 9:06 AM, Friday April 17, 2009 EDT Still waiting for monte's reply some 16 months later...
Still waiting for the game to improve or evolve some 16 months later... Still waiting for a competent moderator: Ryan is incompetent and makes decisions based upon ego not facts. Grunvagr is incompetent. Fiero600 was corrupt. Skrumgaer never played the top tables enough to understand what is going on. Various stoolpidgeons such as Monte Cody Sam were liars or intentially biased. I can think of one guy who is completely honest about competitive integrity. One guy who understands the game. One guy who reports himself and his friends, along with other proven cheaters. One guy who has helped Ryan sanction at least 50 accounts that deserved it. |
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Thraxle wrote
at 9:25 AM, Friday April 17, 2009 EDT OMG..........who is it leek?
*sits on edge of seat* |
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Vermont wrote
at 9:27 AM, Friday April 17, 2009 EDT lol. The funny thing is, I thought about responding and suggesting the answer was thraxle.
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Thraxle wrote
at 9:33 AM, Friday April 17, 2009 EDT I would be happy to be a mod, but even if anyone thought it was a good idea, my time on this site is limited. I'm really only here between the hours of 8-5 EST Monday through Friday. = )
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