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Open letter to the Kdice Community
XxDiceyGirlxX wrote
at 12:08 AM, Monday September 24, 2007 EDT
Dear Kdice Community,

For almost 2 months I have tried to find a way to like the new version of Kdice. I tested on the test server, I have logged many games this past month and I finally have to say… this version leaves me frustrated.

I get the whole poker style wagering system, but Kdice is a much more complex game. In poker, you can’t work a pair of threes into a royal flush, but in Kdice you can work a pair of three stacks into a corner and win the whole game.

It’s not about the dice you are dealt in the beginning it is the way you understand the game and the strategy to make those dice work for you. In Poker – you are dealt what you are dealt. So for me, a poker style scoring system falls quite flat.

It took me a while to get to this point. But yesterday, I played a game that went over 40 rounds and it was exciting… full of strategy and old-school kdice entertainment. There were allies and enemies fighting it out for 1st place. The 8v8 game was the best since August under the elo system. Something I rarely see in the new version.

In the end… the only person to get points was first. A dull thud to what could have been a fantastic game. It’s a real shame that this has to happen… that games now can be completed in 5 rounds. There is no point to have a long game or to employ any sort of strategy to play. Just click, roll, and go.

But that’s not the only thing that has suffered. When I started playing Kdice, I realized quickly that it was just not a game of war, but it is a game of war AND allies. The social aspect of the game was just as important to the strategy aspect. The sheer dynamic of this left the game open to players of many different skill sets. Social networking became an important factor of the game.

Now it is different… There is very little community or communication… just complaints.

To be successful you just grab as many points as you can as daftly as you can. I have watched rooms before logging in to see top players getting fed points. And that really saddens me.

The race for first is no longer the best dice player… it’s just the best point farmer.

In the old game, there were creative and extreme ways to win as well, but they were manageable and noticeable. In the new version, things are driven underground and the ugly underbelly is that the game is no longer about who is the best dice player… it is about who can figure out creative ways to grab points and with great paranoia watch others do the same thing.

Now… I stumble upon people feeding each other points and endless conversations about how the new version doesn’t quite meet everyone’s expectations.

Everyone is clear and unhappy with the point farming, but no one standing up and making a change.

Just to be clear, I’m not putting this out to bitch about the game. I respect what Ryan has done to create and maintain the game. And I really enjoy the game and the people I have met. It’s one of the more fun games I have ever played.

And Ryan, I hope you don’t take this as an attack on the new version. I would hope that you will give us a chance to voice our opinions because at the very basic level – we are all partners. You and the player community work together to make this game what it is and I would like to extend a platform for us to discuss where we are at as a community with this new version.

I hope that in responding to this post, that you will forward the conversation and be honest about what you think. Whether you agree with me or not… that doesn’t matter. What’s important is that we have a voice.

So, this is where I stand. I’m frustrated.

How about you?

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bcmatteagles wrote
at 3:46 PM, Monday September 24, 2007 EDT
Good to hear a lot of interesting feedback. I really appreciate pinky's post as I've played a few with him/her and enjoyed the playing style and the person. It was always interesting as a consistent 2000 players to see who the new faces would be that managed to consistently break into the 2000s and stay there.

So I'm glad that those barriers have been reduced a bit.

What really intrigues me is what Ryan mentioned regarding team play, I think this could really make the sort of informal teams that are already being played far more identifiable and really add to some of the fun. This was a topic that I think was posted a month or two ago in the midst of the big team fights for top elo. I would love the dynamic of a 2v2v2 fight or if possible a 4v4.
Pinky Poo wrote
at 4:32 PM, Monday September 24, 2007 EDT
^^^ I'm a boy bcmatteagles haha.

But on the topic of teams, I really like that idea. Games of 2v2v2 or 2v2v2v2 would be really interesting to me. Who knows...
Alpha1 wrote
at 5:16 PM, Monday September 24, 2007 EDT
i like the new version.....

it's not the game that is the problem, it's the bad players, PGAs, backstabbers, etc.
Themeatwaffle wrote
at 8:03 PM, Monday September 24, 2007 EDT
Ryan, look at my stats. I have not been the best kdice player at any point, but I have been a consistent player for many many months, playing very often especially in the spring. I hate the new system, because it did its job too well- there is very little reward to playing with strategy. This game should not be about mindless attacking, and now it costs too much to build in the corner and try to make something out of a bad game. I don't care what you do, but you have lost a customer. I just played an awful game, where I was in second for most of the time, and two players who were pga-ed easily "took" my points- at least in the old system, I would have gotten dominance points, but after that, I am done. If you take the strategy and subtle ways of manipulating the room out of this game, it becomes just rolling dice. its no fun, and it is obvious. there isnt even any conversation in the room, and I havent had a meaningful truce in two months. this is why sites like this slip away and end in a 404- don't mess with something good. I dont care what you do next month, I am done with kdice. good luck all, you will need it because this game is pure luck.
lesplaydices wrote
at 8:22 PM, Monday September 24, 2007 EDT
^ Everything you just said is wrong.
XxDiceyGirlxX wrote
at 8:52 PM, Monday September 24, 2007 EDT
Lesplay -- we are all entitled to our opinions, but it is the goal of this thread to stay on topic -- the state of kdice and forward the conversation. Please keep this in mind while you post.
rnd wrote
at 8:55 PM, Monday September 24, 2007 EDT
I started playing this game just like everyone else. I knew nobody, and I had a 1500 score. For the first few weeks when I played, I would fall below 1500, and be forced to play a unrated tables -- that was frustrating. I think part of the intrigue in the old game system was climbing the ladder -- both the social and mechanical ladder that was created by the ELO system, which culminated with a Mt. Olympus like higher plane on the 2k tables.

Players strove to rank up to this place where they believed Titans fought and bantered; that on the 2K tables, everything was different. Strategy was better, players were better, the society was perfect there. For many, the ELO system -- the game itself -- was about getting to this place, bettering yourself, and joining the ranks of the elite. Perhaps when they got there the game was over, once they realized that the titans they sought never really existed :)

So the ladder is no longer here. The clubhouse is gone. Your friends are mostly still here -- but they're mingling with everyone -- even some people who never knew, or cared, about the old club house. I suppose this too can be frustrating.. shiny fire trucks have been replaced with go cart races, where everyone has the same equipment. Still though, the skill of driving persists, and those that were stars before will continue to shine. I can't agree that any strategy has been removed from the game -- sure some strategies need to be changed to fit the new rules, and the rules seem to be changing rapidly; but with a goal that has not wavered.
Alpha1 wrote
at 8:55 PM, Monday September 24, 2007 EDT
people just want to change the game so that they can be top players, winners......

i don't see why you can't gain points when you have skill (i admit i am not as good as many of your here).....

the only thing that need to be fixed is the unfair start.....how could you have 4 territories all connected at the start? i just happened too often......
Maestrokneer wrote
at 9:19 PM, Monday September 24, 2007 EDT
Azala said: "I want a filter against bad players so I can enjoy playing again.

With ELO bad players stayed 1500 or 1600, mediocre players stayed 1800, and good players never left 2000"

This is my main complaint too. I'm a generation 1.5 (started playing in January) top-tier K-dicer who was never able to devote enough time to be in the top 25 (because in order to get enough rank, you had to play A LOT of games)

But at least with ELO, I could get recognition for my "skills" AND play with people of equal skill. Now, it's just a free for all and entirely frustrating.

Whether the gameplay stays the same, or changes, WE NEED A DUAL SCORING SYSTEM.

1 for rank (which is reset at the beginning of the month), and 1 for rating which stays with you.

I think you can have the best of both worlds here. Ryan help bring it back!
cadpilot wrote
at 9:23 PM, Monday September 24, 2007 EDT
While I haven't thought it out to put it into words well enough, I know that there are scoring issues and dice roll issues that need to be addressed, based on the many threads I've read here and in the Ideas list.

The one thing that really depresses me about this new version, is that you can work as hard as you can to get a good score, but come the end of each month, everything is taken from you and you have to start over. This is where I insert a joke about Ryan actually working for the IRS or taking orders from Hillary Clinton. :D
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