Forum


OTF to PGA a grey line in the sand
Posted By: MadHat_Sam at 9:50 AM, Friday February 18, 2011 EST
I will list some examples of behavior that would be legitimate and some that wouldn't be but this is in no way an exhaustive list or guideline for what is or isn't allowed. This is only a clarification of where a moderator might draw the line.

OTF stands for Old Trusted Friend or Off Table Friend.

PGA stands for Pre-Game Alliance, but is more of a catch all term for using off table knowledge to not just make the best move but to undermine the fair and competitive nature of a game.

Explicit PGAs tend to be mostly on the lower tables as the lack of socialization makes it easier to get away with and easier to do since the quantity of lower games is plentiful. Sometimes explicit PGAs will occur on higher tables but the players are better at self policing to a point as the table level increases.

Implicit PGAs are much more common at higher level tables are the player base is smaller and the knowledge each player has of one another is greater. Easiest example of this type of play is making a lower value and lower upside move to avoid hitting a "friend". KDice is a social game and relationships do play a role in playing it, but there is a line between not 1-Hitting a "friend" and playing a significantly lower value move to avoid hitting a "friend" at all.

In a perfect KWorld who your neighbor is wouldn't matter, but players are unique and we don't all follow the same algorithm for the moves we make so who your neighbor is does matter. It doesn't matter to the point where you refuse to make the best move because you don't want to upset someone you like, this crosses the line and creates a competitive deficit for players that are newer or less aware of the "friendships" at the table.

Well I understand most players aren't as ruthless as me, I am not trying to encourage behavior some people find distasteful such as 2v1ing someone you don't feel should be 2v1d given the situation. It is an individual players responsibility though to make sure that in their efforts to play how they think is "fair" is "fair" to the game not just to certain players they are "friends" with.

KDice does not lend itself to a clear set of guidelines for what is and isn't legitimate play. Much of this is subjective to the individual advisors, but we all tend to be close to what we feel is allowable.

The best I can offer as an advisor is that "I know it when I see it." As much as I would like a better clearer standard I do not have one.

Obligatory tl;dr

« First ‹ Previous Replies 21 - 27 of 27
TheAngryBeaver wrote
at 11:35 PM, Wednesday March 9, 2011 EST
but we can still pga right sam? Like since we know each other and i am so nice to never win a defend against you
Magic Roundabout wrote
at 6:34 AM, Tuesday March 15, 2011 EDT
madhats a bitch
Gurgi wrote
at 10:15 AM, Saturday March 26, 2011 EDT
"20% of kdicers play for points, and don't care how they gain them."

76% of statistics are made up

although the good ones don't need AIM in order to cheat.
example: gurgi and zoid

^_^ i dont care the context, thanks for the shoutout <3
willod wrote
at 5:43 PM, Wednesday April 6, 2011 EDT
Is this a mod forum post to justify the fact that you PGA...cough...sorry, "OTF" all your cronies at the 500's on up? Or to explain why you are a S*%$!y mod?

Either way, you're a F@&%ing toolbox.
Correct wrote
at 2:52 PM, Tuesday May 3, 2011 EDT
Should check on Kosture this month carefully. He does OBVIOUS PGA moves. please keep this in mind.
Fatman_x wrote
at 7:20 AM, Sunday May 22, 2011 EDT
now like 90% of people will tell me that I am crazy but I like'd DLK before just cause he tried to prevent that OTF shit. After like 3 months of playing I started to get some respect on higher tables (2k and 5k) but first 3-4 months it was so frustrating to come on 2k and get 2 or 3 vs 1 from start cause nobody trust you. In my opinion main problem is that guys/girls on higher tables dont even give a chance to prove how he plays but kill him instantly cause they dont want to risk. Somebody will call it mistake, somebody giving a fair chance but firsttime when I see player I risk and wait to see what he will do when I move while Sam, Das, Shad in the past, kak's and so on and so on will 'kill first then ask later'. I write this just after some noob fucked me on 500 table when I move from him and didnt cut him, I hot fucked, lost 250 points but I think that is small price to see what character and game skill's somebody have, you will kill him next game and problem solved. So now I have apoximatley 10 'otf' maybe even more, but I needed like 10 months to get so many of them, some I get after 3 months, some later but fact is to keep it short we/they on high tables is pretty closed comunity and dont give chance to anyone. In my opinion we would solve like 90% of that problem if we let someone to play first time and then if he screw us we kill him whenever he appear and if he play normal and 'read a board' we accept him, main problem is that like 75% of people from higher tables dont give a chance to new people, I say that from my expirience. Of course you have some people who you trust more or less but in general main problem is for example 5 vs 2 when 2 new players come on 2k. As I told I give them one chance and if they mess it up I kill them also all the time but others (most of them, not all) dont give even that first chance so that is realy look like big pga and not otf. That was most frustrating when I start to play.
mrb2097 wrote
at 12:15 PM, Saturday July 9, 2011 EDT
so would you ban pge too? as this is definetly the flip side to pga/otf. to purposefully damage someone else so they cannot win at the express detriment to yourself. this happens a whole lot more than pga in my experience.

I do agree that something needs doing, but think that it should take more than one person to sanction the bad as you are talking about grey areas where personal interpretation can count for alot.

@uglygolfball

when 2 people secretly connive to alter the out come of a situation, they are playing with insider knowledge giving them leveraged advantage. So all other variants being equal, they will have a favorable outcome. This is bad for all participants that are not them.
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