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Common misconceptions about the current flagging system.
Posted By: Vermont at 9:20 AM, Wednesday November 19, 2014 EST
I've noticed that a good deal of the frustration with the game and with other players is consistently due to misunderstandings of the flagging system. This becomes pretty evident when you take a look at players' review pages and a large majority of the negative, and even positive comments, deal with flagging.
The initial flagging system was introduced solely as a way to help the game end faster. It was a simple checkbox, not related to place. When all players other than the one in first checked this box the game would end and each player would receive place based on their current position.
Incidentally, this system led to 'ninja flagging,' where a player would wait for everyone else to have their flag up and then quickly over-expand and then flag themselves, ending the game. They would then finish much higher than they should have otherwise. This led to some fun games as people would watch and try to respond, but it also cause some frustration. Anyone who uses 'ninja flagging' in regards to the current system is using the term incorrectly.
I bring this up because the current flagging system was introduced specifically to address the ninja flagging 'problem.' Some players that play in both systems find the old system preferable, some do not. To each their own; I don't think Ryan will be changing it back anytime soon.
The issue we have now is that flags are grossly misunderstood. You see people all the time expecting that when their flag is up they will not be attacked and thus they feel you did not "honor" or "respect" their flag if you attack them. This completely erroneous assumption has lead to a great deal of complaining, frustration, and negative review leaving.
Here are the flagging facts:
1. If you flag to someone, they have the complete right to still attack you, and often should. There is nothing 'dishonorable' about it. They may need to expand to fight for a higher position and your flag should not stop them from expanding to do so. They may want to earn more dom points - it is their right to do so as they have clearly earned a stronger position. Flags are ONLY there to help the game end faster; they are not magic invincibility potions to protect you when you otherwise should die.
2. People who over-expand and then throw up a flag should frequently be attacked. Just because you put up a flag does not mean that you can foolishly over-expand and leave little stacks lying about and expect to keep them. Again, a flag is not a magic invincibility potion that protects you from attack - it's just there to help the game end faster. You'll often see people over expand recklessly throw up a flag and have it 'respected' and thus earning a position higher than they should have gotten. Good strategy on their part if they think they can get away with it, but poor form on the other players' part to let them do so. Keep in mind that that over-expanding player is taking dominance points away from the other players when they do this as well; frequently from the person who is in the best position to take their smaller stacks.
3. An early flag is essentially a truce offer. If a player verbally flags in round two, it's a safe assumption that those two players are effectively truced and will not be hindering each other's play. The other players on the board need to actively counter this or will almost always end up losing to these two players. This is not very different from being observant and countering two players who says things like "I'm cool" or "how about we be friendly." If you don't fight this behavior when possible, those players will win. You will see some people that ignore or even purposefully attack early verbal flags. This is a reasonable solution to this problem. They're probably flagging early because they are weak, so take the land and dominance points if you are in a position to do so.
In review:
Flagging Rule #1 - Flagging to someone does not mean they cannot and often should not attack you.
Flagging Rule #2 - Players who recklessly over-expand and then flag for defense should often be attacked.
Flagging Rule #3 - An early verbal flag is often an effective truce offer.
I will state the most important part again: flagging was only introduced to help the game end faster. Your flag DOES NOT prevent you from being attacked - it is not what it was designed to do.
The initial flagging system was introduced solely as a way to help the game end faster. It was a simple checkbox, not related to place. When all players other than the one in first checked this box the game would end and each player would receive place based on their current position.
Incidentally, this system led to 'ninja flagging,' where a player would wait for everyone else to have their flag up and then quickly over-expand and then flag themselves, ending the game. They would then finish much higher than they should have otherwise. This led to some fun games as people would watch and try to respond, but it also cause some frustration. Anyone who uses 'ninja flagging' in regards to the current system is using the term incorrectly.
I bring this up because the current flagging system was introduced specifically to address the ninja flagging 'problem.' Some players that play in both systems find the old system preferable, some do not. To each their own; I don't think Ryan will be changing it back anytime soon.
The issue we have now is that flags are grossly misunderstood. You see people all the time expecting that when their flag is up they will not be attacked and thus they feel you did not "honor" or "respect" their flag if you attack them. This completely erroneous assumption has lead to a great deal of complaining, frustration, and negative review leaving.
Here are the flagging facts:
1. If you flag to someone, they have the complete right to still attack you, and often should. There is nothing 'dishonorable' about it. They may need to expand to fight for a higher position and your flag should not stop them from expanding to do so. They may want to earn more dom points - it is their right to do so as they have clearly earned a stronger position. Flags are ONLY there to help the game end faster; they are not magic invincibility potions to protect you when you otherwise should die.
2. People who over-expand and then throw up a flag should frequently be attacked. Just because you put up a flag does not mean that you can foolishly over-expand and leave little stacks lying about and expect to keep them. Again, a flag is not a magic invincibility potion that protects you from attack - it's just there to help the game end faster. You'll often see people over expand recklessly throw up a flag and have it 'respected' and thus earning a position higher than they should have gotten. Good strategy on their part if they think they can get away with it, but poor form on the other players' part to let them do so. Keep in mind that that over-expanding player is taking dominance points away from the other players when they do this as well; frequently from the person who is in the best position to take their smaller stacks.
3. An early flag is essentially a truce offer. If a player verbally flags in round two, it's a safe assumption that those two players are effectively truced and will not be hindering each other's play. The other players on the board need to actively counter this or will almost always end up losing to these two players. This is not very different from being observant and countering two players who says things like "I'm cool" or "how about we be friendly." If you don't fight this behavior when possible, those players will win. You will see some people that ignore or even purposefully attack early verbal flags. This is a reasonable solution to this problem. They're probably flagging early because they are weak, so take the land and dominance points if you are in a position to do so.
In review:
Flagging Rule #1 - Flagging to someone does not mean they cannot and often should not attack you.
Flagging Rule #2 - Players who recklessly over-expand and then flag for defense should often be attacked.
Flagging Rule #3 - An early verbal flag is often an effective truce offer.
I will state the most important part again: flagging was only introduced to help the game end faster. Your flag DOES NOT prevent you from being attacked - it is not what it was designed to do.
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NancyPelosi wrote
at 5:28 PM, Monday March 14, 2011 EDT Wow Vermont, fantastic post. I wish everyone understood this. Great points.
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Liathan wrote
at 3:15 PM, Tuesday March 15, 2011 EDT How come the word truce is always being used so wrong here in Kdice?
Literally a truce means armistice, and not aliance. So truce actually means i wont attack. Often even only for a certain time. For that there is no word in Kdice comunication, and hence can hardly be played out. Thats a real pitty, because it limits the game and is less realistic. |
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@Zervas wrote
at 5:57 PM, Wednesday March 16, 2011 EDT Word.
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portsomerdale wrote
at 11:29 PM, Tuesday March 22, 2011 EDT The biggest thing not being mentioned about flagging is that so many folks think that "saying flag" means that it has to be accepted........On the contrary...A lot of these players do not see the whole game board. Many of them are flagging to an oppenent who is seeking a very high position, and the flaggers weak land is valuable real estate that can be gained at low risks............This play is a part of many games and it is very annoying when the flagger does not understand that blood must be shed in a game of war.......Many of them cry and whine in the chat log, and then give out bad reviews...............It is a pure crime to the game!!!!!!!!!!!!
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filoviridae wrote
at 11:00 AM, Sunday May 1, 2011 EDT How come most people including the top 25 regulary do not understand the flagging system? coming out with your my new PGE ETC...one would think the better players would set an example of how to play the game being of such a supposed level of skill,truth be told these are rules with a choice behind them to follow or not as they cannot be in-forced to any perticular standard.
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Gurgi wrote
at 10:39 PM, Sunday May 22, 2011 EDT control F-SEARCH: [backstab] ->0 matches
THE FUCK |
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greekboi wrote
at 1:08 AM, Wednesday July 6, 2011 EDT this is good, except they are not misconceptions about the current flagging system. they are just Verm's preferences regarding it.
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Without_a_Clue wrote
at 7:53 AM, Thursday August 11, 2011 EDT Thanks for writing this. Someone had to.
I was confused by the flag system myself. All new people should read this when they join and before they play their first game. you wanna know something crazy?, take away the review part of profiles, and this all becomes moot. |
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BoxCars wrote
at 4:13 PM, Saturday September 3, 2011 EDT Your rules fall on deaf ears. Kflag is the game now. Ryan, remove points for wins, award bold fast play. Change the color of dice to the represent player's position--Purple is first place, Blue is 2nd place, etc. Flaggers will twist and cry in the winds of color confusion. Kdice will be reborn!
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Shaqueefa wrote
at 5:59 PM, Thursday September 15, 2011 EDT The original intent is irrelevant. In practice accepting or offering flags is a promise not to attack that person for the remainder of the game. That is why people flip out about getting stabbed.
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