Forum
An Advisor's Reply (to the community)
Posted By: Grunvagr at 8:56 PM, Thursday June 26, 2008 EDT
***This blog concerns Grunvagr's views on the moderating issues in kdice, and what the community can do to help improve things***
First off, I want players to know that we do listen to the community. That's the whole point of having advisors in the first place - having someone to represent you, moderate offensive behavior and upsetting avatars and try to keep this place clean, overall.
Second, there needs to be better definitions of what is to be accepted and what is to be considered unacceptable, both in terms of avatar use / things players can say to others, etc.
Now, the problem arises where people want minor concerns moderated (demanding mutings or bannings of other players for minor offenses).
I want to make sure of one thing. Kdice has always been a relaxed community atmosphere, where players can relax, enjoy the game, chill with friends, joke around and enjoy each other's company. It should remain that way.
Now, that said, there needs to be some sort order to things where players cannot blatantly offend, harrass others, etc. That's where advisors come in.
_____________________________________________
Here's the situation, summarized:
_____________________________________________
* Certain players in the community want more moderating (more players banned, more mutings, etc)
* Certain players want the opposite, where they feel too much is being moderated and they feel discouraged by advisors for being TOO strict and not letting them enjoy the game and goof around with buddies as they have for many months / years.
That is the fine line and there should be no way we can't appease both groups. The key is simple: define what is acceptable and what is not.
_____________________________________________
What needs to be done:
_____________________________________________
>>> The best way to quickly change things for the better is the IDEA FORUM <<<
What we need are more things in place that HELP advisors to handle your complaints, look into problems, and address them if they indeed should be handled (by muting / banning, stripping an avatar away, etc)
So the purpose of this blog is to ask the community to help us help you.
For example: If someone cusses you out at a table, right now chat logs are nothing but copied and pasted as proof - something that could be forged easily and thus anyone can blame anyone (so if I'm not at a table and dont see it, just understand that an accusation IS an accusation only, not proof).
What we could and should do as a community is look into ways where we can document infractions easily - that way they can be handled quickly.
So for instance, an idea I can think up of right now that makes sense would be a chatlog saver - an option to save a chatlog in a game and post it later for advisors to review (something that would be saved as a file and thus better than just copy / pasting bad text on the forums - which spam the forums and dont make things look good for the beautiful game in general). Forum posts should be upbeat, or discussing life or the game, not about people cussing / name calling, etc - when that is SUCH A SMALL PART of the community.
_____________________________________________
Here's another idea that I formally proposed which already has gotten some support:
_____________________________________________
http://kdice.com/ideas/ideas/44761619?
_____________________________________________
What can you do?
_____________________________________________
Ask not what kdice can do for you, ask what YOU can do for kdice ;)
Think up of good ideas to help moderate and suggest them. Also, compile a list of acceptable or unacceptable behavior or discuss that in a forum post.
_____________________________________________
What's the point??
_____________________________________________
The purpose of this blog is to acknowledge that advisors do listen to the community. But we want players to understand that we don't want to alienate half the community by moderating too severely, nor do we want to ignore people that are harrassed and demand help from us.
Let's discuss and take things from there. A list of acceptable and unacceptable behavior alone (you'd be surprised) is amazingly difficult to make. So lets work together to compile one.
***This is Grunvagr's views on the issue of moderating. If you agree or disagree, take it out on ME***
_____________________________________________
Reply away
First off, I want players to know that we do listen to the community. That's the whole point of having advisors in the first place - having someone to represent you, moderate offensive behavior and upsetting avatars and try to keep this place clean, overall.
Second, there needs to be better definitions of what is to be accepted and what is to be considered unacceptable, both in terms of avatar use / things players can say to others, etc.
Now, the problem arises where people want minor concerns moderated (demanding mutings or bannings of other players for minor offenses).
I want to make sure of one thing. Kdice has always been a relaxed community atmosphere, where players can relax, enjoy the game, chill with friends, joke around and enjoy each other's company. It should remain that way.
Now, that said, there needs to be some sort order to things where players cannot blatantly offend, harrass others, etc. That's where advisors come in.
_____________________________________________
Here's the situation, summarized:
_____________________________________________
* Certain players in the community want more moderating (more players banned, more mutings, etc)
* Certain players want the opposite, where they feel too much is being moderated and they feel discouraged by advisors for being TOO strict and not letting them enjoy the game and goof around with buddies as they have for many months / years.
That is the fine line and there should be no way we can't appease both groups. The key is simple: define what is acceptable and what is not.
_____________________________________________
What needs to be done:
_____________________________________________
>>> The best way to quickly change things for the better is the IDEA FORUM <<<
What we need are more things in place that HELP advisors to handle your complaints, look into problems, and address them if they indeed should be handled (by muting / banning, stripping an avatar away, etc)
So the purpose of this blog is to ask the community to help us help you.
For example: If someone cusses you out at a table, right now chat logs are nothing but copied and pasted as proof - something that could be forged easily and thus anyone can blame anyone (so if I'm not at a table and dont see it, just understand that an accusation IS an accusation only, not proof).
What we could and should do as a community is look into ways where we can document infractions easily - that way they can be handled quickly.
So for instance, an idea I can think up of right now that makes sense would be a chatlog saver - an option to save a chatlog in a game and post it later for advisors to review (something that would be saved as a file and thus better than just copy / pasting bad text on the forums - which spam the forums and dont make things look good for the beautiful game in general). Forum posts should be upbeat, or discussing life or the game, not about people cussing / name calling, etc - when that is SUCH A SMALL PART of the community.
_____________________________________________
Here's another idea that I formally proposed which already has gotten some support:
_____________________________________________
http://kdice.com/ideas/ideas/44761619?
_____________________________________________
What can you do?
_____________________________________________
Ask not what kdice can do for you, ask what YOU can do for kdice ;)
Think up of good ideas to help moderate and suggest them. Also, compile a list of acceptable or unacceptable behavior or discuss that in a forum post.
_____________________________________________
What's the point??
_____________________________________________
The purpose of this blog is to acknowledge that advisors do listen to the community. But we want players to understand that we don't want to alienate half the community by moderating too severely, nor do we want to ignore people that are harrassed and demand help from us.
Let's discuss and take things from there. A list of acceptable and unacceptable behavior alone (you'd be surprised) is amazingly difficult to make. So lets work together to compile one.
***This is Grunvagr's views on the issue of moderating. If you agree or disagree, take it out on ME***
_____________________________________________
Reply away
skrumgaer wrote
at 9:22 PM, Thursday June 26, 2008 EDT Grun:
Also we need a discussion of the role of advisors versus moderators. I am an advisor, but I cannot moderate. |
Grunvagr wrote
at 9:28 PM, Thursday June 26, 2008 EDT ???
Double check- I highly doubt that - because advisor is just moderator renamed, heh. (least I thought so. Go to any table, then click Preferences, there should be 4 tabs, the 4th one is moderate. I'd be astounded if you are an Advisor and cant do that. |
skrumgaer wrote
at 9:58 PM, Thursday June 26, 2008 EDT You are correct, Grun. Since I have been given the power to moderate, I have to learn the responsibilities of being a moderator.
|
fishnetangel wrote
at 10:31 PM, Thursday June 26, 2008 EDT Ok. Wait, scrum is an advisor??? We really need to figure out a way for the advisors to be open knowledge, especially what they are doing. There should also be within this "log" type thing a place where the community can post their beliefs on the actions of the advisors. Kind of an instant feed back. That way the will of the community is always known, and there is so question of what is going on. I personally think that the moderation has been good as it is a fine line to walk, I just think that documentation will clear a lot of this up.
|
lovekdicetodeath wrote
at 10:33 PM, Thursday June 26, 2008 EDT "Now, the problem arises where people want minor concerns moderated (demanding mutings or bannings of other players for minor offenses)."
define what you consider as minor offenses please. is racism considered a minor one? http://kdice.com/discussion/topics/44759962 |
lovekdicetodeath wrote
at 10:38 PM, Thursday June 26, 2008 EDT "Now, the problem arises where people want minor concerns moderated (demanding mutings or bannings of other players for minor offenses)."
can you please tell me what is considered minor offenses? is racism one of them? |
manbearpig wrote
at 1:50 AM, Friday June 27, 2008 EDT lktd, the purpose of this thread is to determine AS A COMMUNITY what is acceptable/unacceptable behavior. Grun should not be left to do this on his own, nor any other advisor/mod in that case. I'll start it off with:
Unacceptable: -Racism -Belligerent spamming/constant "cussing out" sessions -Porn avatars (what is the limit here?) -Spamming the forum with "I hate this player becuz" trash Acceptable: -Supporting a generally unliked political group (communism) -Quick, non-repetitive outbursts These are MY opinions, anybody can and should feel free to add their own or make changes, as again, this is a COMMUNITY EFFORT. |
rifty wrote
at 3:11 AM, Friday June 27, 2008 EDT Agree with manbearpib above.
Racism HAS to be unacceptable. I've seen it posted that it should be allowed upto a degree. Thats fucking crap. Look at any terms and conditions on any reputable website and you will see, very quickly, that racial abuse is not allowed. That doesnt mean its allowed upto a degree. It means its NOT allowed. Now, if you allow players to post the word NIGGER for example, and then do nothing, whats going to happen is that someother small minded fucker is gonna think its ok, and post NIGGER at the first opportunity he or she gets. Its a no brainer. Racism is unacceptable the world fucking over. Make it unacceptable here. |
rifty wrote
at 3:17 AM, Friday June 27, 2008 EDT Agree with manbearpig.
Unacceptable : Racism Its unacceptable the world fucking over. Why let it be acceptable here? |
Ryan wrote
at 9:56 AM, Friday June 27, 2008 EDT It's not a question of what type of behavior is acceptable. Its a question of how much of certain behaviors is acceptable. This is subjective. So the guideline is driven by the goal to have nobody feel abused (outside of the game).
I'm particularly thinking about racism. This is too broad a topic. Personally I'm most offended when white dudes use the N word and will most likely ban people for this. But there's a lot that can be subjective. If someone says the brits suck at kdice... is this racist? From one perspective yes. My point is Racism is only bad when it's abusive. So mods need to use their judgement and think "does someone feel abused? or is this guy just being an idiot for a second". I'd like to discourage the hunt for people to ban. It seems like this can be a game in itself. Also I'd like to discourage saying mods aren't banning enough. There were no mods before and hardly any banning. Let's ease into this mod thing with few bans only for extreme behaviour. Another note on the pornography icons. I'm not really offended by these but I know some people can be offended. KDice isn't really a kids game so I don't think thats the issue - its just some people are offended. On top of this ad networks don't want their ads on sites with porn. In short I want to suggest that we lean towards being tolerant. If we want to make specific rules, with all of the different cultures that play kdice I don't think we'll ever agree. |