Are flags automatically transitive?
fiero600 wrote
at 12:40 PM, Thursday September 28, 2023 EDT

You're in a tournament. 3 players left.

Red has 10 connected lands.
Green has 10 connected lands.
Purple has 3 islands.

Red says, "Flag green." (clearly accepting 2nd place)

Green, for Tourney strat purposes of wanting to knock red out of the tourney, says "Ok, then I flag purple."

Is Red now expected to flag out of the tournament? If Red could simply kill purple on his next turn, would that be a stab?

My opinion, is that flags are not automatically transitive. If you flag someone, you should help them in their fights, and you should never attack them, but you're not required to surrender to anyone they surrender to.


Replies 1 - 10 of 10
fiero600 wrote
at 12:45 PM, Thursday September 28, 2023 EDT
Twist - In this situation, if Red states that he refuses to accept 3rd, is Green now expected to flag out into 3rd to save purple?
at 12:11 AM, Friday September 29, 2023 EDT
I don't consider flags transitive. If someone doesn't directly flag me or vice-versa, then there's no flag assumed.
Louis Cypher wrote
at 7:50 AM, Friday September 29, 2023 EDT
Transitivity of flags is an unsolved issue. The rules don't even know verbal or virtual flags, you can only flag for a position...

I usually consider flags transitive but ask to make sure it is seen that way by all.

In the given case, as red I'd kill purp. It was greens duty to protect purp. If red was brilliant he makes green real-flag before killing purp...

We all know cases, where flag players watch how the guy they flagged to gets killed to improve their position.

After all and coming back to the beginning, there is no fixed rules about flags. In the end it is the communities duty to educate those that don't behave like the others think they should - if there is a clear majority opinion.
deffonotTimer wrote
at 4:48 PM, Wednesday October 4, 2023 EDT
The example given is misleading, as Green effectively denies Red's flag (only accepting it to eliminate him). Obviously, in this case, Red should fight back. This is also a situation that would very rarely, if ever, happen in a real game.

Regarding the main question - virtually all top players consider flags to be transitive. Here's why:

Let's start with understanding what a flag means, as there might be some confusion, and it's highly relevant. When Player A flags Player B, it's essentially an offer from Player A to place below Player B as long as Player B doesn't attack them. In a sense, it's a
resignation to that player, creating a hierarchy. Once Player B accepts the flag, it's an enduring agreement that should be honored throughout the entire game. Players generally flag when they are easy prey for the person they flag. The player who
receives the flag often passes up on free lands but gains an ally, as their interests align.

To emphasize the importance of transitive flags, let's consider a more common situation. We have three players: Red, Green, and Purple. Red and Green both have 10 connected lands, while Purple only has 3.

Purple flagged Red to avoid elimination and attempts to play for 2nd. Red accepts Purple's flag, so he can focus on Green. As the game unfolds, Green starts to outmatch Red, while Purple has been able to grow during their fight.
Green still has 10 lands, Purple now has 11 lands, and Red is at risk of being eliminated with only 2 lands. Red decides to flag Green, as he has Purple's flag, which he honored, to secure his 2nd place. As we have established,
flags mean that you place below the person you flag. Purple flagged Red, thereby agreeing to place below Red. Red flagged Green, thereby agreeing to place below Green, resulting in Green becoming the winner of the game.

Some may argue that Purple can still fight Green, as they haven't directly flagged Green.
Let's explore this scenario: Purple and Green fight, and Purple beats Green. Now Green flags Purple. What's next? How would this scenario be resolved with circular flags? Purple flagged to Red, Red flagged to Green, Green flagged
to Purple. To conclude the game, players would need to nullify prior flags. This isn't a good solution, as flags are meant to be lasting commitments, and people should honor their offer to place below the person they flagged. Red, who
was flagged first, goes from being guaranteed 2nd place with chances for 1st, to potentially 3rd. As a flagger, you have to worry about the person you flagged, as you are still supposed to honor your agreement, even when they need to
flag somebody else.

Ultimately, transitive flags provide more clarity, as people stay true to their word, and breaking the transitivity would disrupt the spirit of the game.
at 5:54 PM, Thursday October 5, 2023 EDT
deffonotTimer wrote
at 6:30 PM, Thursday October 5, 2023 EDT
meant to include that.

circular flags bad

transitive flags gud

hope that helps
greeen wrote
at 4:25 AM, Friday October 6, 2023 EDT
i'd just roll because idc lol
at 2:20 AM, Tuesday October 10, 2023 EDT
fiero, for the future please refrain from doing this pandora's flags thing ever again. ever since you brought up the issue on the forum and people began to discuss it in-game, I have seen more unwarranted, crippling, deadly, and other downright braindead flags given and accepted than ever before - though to be fair, I am guilty of the latter offense myself, which will not happen again.
anyway, it is clearly your fault and not just my skewed perception.

thank you for your understanding (and complying),
Slinus wrote
at 3:13 PM, Tuesday October 10, 2023 EDT
CriticalDog wrote
at 12:40 PM, Wednesday November 1, 2023 EDT
I have missed this eternal question. lol
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