I bet it was hitler =D

ps- that was a baited response

Surprise surprise, corporatist parties don't represent the interests of the people. They never have and never will.

Corporations can privately donate billions of dollars to a candidate's election campaign without anyone knowing. Bribery is legalized in the form of lobbying.

Lenin and Marx expound on this much more eloquently than I can, but essentially there is no point to voting in our current system. The system cannot be changed from within. Look at all the third parties that have sprung up in the history of the United States. All of them that gained noticeable traction were absorbed into the Republican/Democrat fold. The policies that the mainstream parties adopted to attract third party voters were/are dumped 20 odd years down the line when people forget about the hot button issue of the day (see: the New Deal concerning the Progressive movement).

I'm a big believer in adapting political beliefs to our history. As we found out with Trotsky and the Internationalist movement, incrementalism does not work. The only way to change our neo-liberal, capitalist system is through radical, revolutionary change.

thats not changing it thats destroying it. the rights of capital should be protected. by capital i mean rich people. society can advance with out radical revolutions. beside the US isnt ready for revolution per the manifesto. thats the differnece between liberals and conservative in my opinion.

liberals want to change everything to get there. conservatives want it to come more naturally.

US political parties are corrupted so when i talk of conservative and liberal i take a broader definition

Harry, I am not so myopic that I blindly support anyone or anything. I was cognizant of the fact that I was an atheist when I was 6 years old. Do you think the powers that be (especially France) would do anything as high profile and controversial as what's going on in Libya if ot wasn't in their best interest? I don't. That being said I recognize when politicians actually have the earnest well-being of their constituents at heart and when they think they do... and when they don't at all. For example, I think Reagan really thought that war on drugs and dismissing keyenesian economics was a good idea, I do not think Governor Walker cared about the well-being of his constituents as much as the well-being of billionaires that aren't even from his state. That being said our obligations, militarily and politically, to France and Britain require that we aid in this no-fly zone imposition, albeit at my and many other American's behest. There's a different between having good intentions and being a jackass and having good intentions and being somewhat rational and intelligent. I would argue that generally speaking you see the former a lot more in the Republican party than you do in the Democratic party and you see the latter a lot more in the Democratic party than you see in the Republican party.


So does it seem like I have a little more favor for the Democratic party and liberal philosophy than the Republican party and so called "conservative" philosophy? Yeah it should because I do. Conservatism is a joke and is essentially a ruse to trick people into voting against their own self interests.

Let me ask you, what is the measure of a government of a society? If you answered the general prosperity of the individuals of the nation on a whole you would be correct. This is not the most universal or articulate means to measure ruling institutions but it is definitely self evident. Let me explain, the more people in a given nation become prosperous, the better job the government is doing. So it would follow if more and more people are becoming destitute the government is doing a bad job. Since the government is an extension of the people's will it stands to reason that the people are voting against their own self interest. Now how can this be you may ask? Because of shit like Fox News, because of people like Rush Limbaugh, and shit like the dramatic re-branding Republicans undergo every few years to escape the repercussions of their actions. First it was the Rockefeller Republican, then it was the Conservative, then it was the Neo-Con, and now it's the Tea Party. It's all bullshit with a new label to trick the same people into voting for the rich's interests and not their own. So now you know the reason for my scorn of the Republican party, well aside from all the stupid hypocritical shit they do. If you guys want I can post hypocrisy they commit on a regular basis. You guys seemed to like the shit I posted recently.

Really Greek, do you give a shit any presidents use the executive powers they've garnered over the ages or do you just want to look for a beef with Obama. If you want to be pissed about that, then be pissed at Reagan, both Bushes, and every president since Eisenhower except Carter. And yes I know that's a Biden quote. Considering Biden probably is nowhere near as powerful as Dick Cheney was I'd like you to guess how much influence he actually had on that decision.

That being said you can find Dozens of quotes like these from actual PRESIDENTS who said shit like this and did the opposite a recent example is GWB and GHWB. Not mention Cheney saying on numerous occasions that invading Iraq would be a quagmire of the highest order.

So the question I want to leave you with is, since the Republicans are obviously subverting our interests, what else is there? The democrats might not be trying to fuck us but they're all pussies. So I'll tell you what there is, I'm moving the fuck out of this country as soon as I'm wealthy enough.

Where will you go?

I like a few up and coming countries/cities. Berlin will definitely be a world capital in a few decades, brazil would be cool if you have a proportionate amount of affluence, and Barcelona or Southern France wouldn't be bad either.

Die ganze blöde Politik der doofen Kolonien, in die die kultivierte Welt damals ihre Unterpriviligierten deportierte, ist so dermaßen uninteressant und hat so gar nichts mit diesem Spiel zu tun, dass ich mich echt frage, ob diese Kreaturen überhaupt kein Leben haben, um sich hier über den Dreck zu unterhalten. Hallo Deppen - für solche Diskussionen gibt es Stammtische!

Tourney Champ, the US may not be ready for a revolution per the manifesto, but neither were Russia or Cuba. That's the entire point of Lenin's work, that a revolutionary vanguard can foster and protect a revolution without it being spontaneously started via class consciousness and a mass uprising.

I also certainly disagree with your statement that "capital has a right to be protected". What you are essentially arguing is for the existence of the state, since Lenin proved that the state exists only through the inevitability of the irreconcilability of class antagonisms. You may be wondering what the fuck that means. Basically, Lenin says that the state exists to rob the poor and give to the rich, to exploit as many labor markets as possible. As any level of research will tell you, this is what's happening in America and the rest of the world today. The rich are getting richer, and everyone else is being crushed into the ground under the steel-toed boot of capital.

If you want to know more about the state and why it comes to be and why we must destroy it to make true progress, I highly recommend Lenin's "State and Revolution", it really is a brilliant work.

"So I'll tell you what there is, I'm moving the fuck out of this country as soon as I'm wealthy enough."

And thanks to this great nation you will have every "opportunity" to amass as much wealth as you can acheive.

Veta, there's no denying that your an intelligent person. Your responses are well written. Your reference to articles proves that you put the time in to study your viewpoint and prove to yourself that your thoughts are right. You're going to college which will eventually earn you a degree, or many degrees. You have placed yourself on a path that allows you to excel in our society and make a great life for yourself. I have little doubt that you'll have success in the job market and make good wages in your future.

Opportunities like this are available to anyone and everyone in this country. In a generation or less people can change their stars with hard work, good choices, and maybe a little bit of good luck.

All four of my grandparents were fairly poor when they were raising their children (my parents). Poor to the point where they had homes, but had to scrape by to put food on the table or keep the heat turned on. However, all of my grandparents were hard-working folks, and they concentrated what little wealth they had on raising their children.

My parents, whom hail from humble beginnings, never went to college, but they worked their asses off in the jobs they had to provide for themselves and their only child (me). My dad has worked in the shipyard for 37 years and my mom worked for a hospital for 25. She's now happily retired and my father has a simple job at a good pay grade while he's biding his time to retire. Between the two of them they've been making well over $100,000 combined for many years now. They have a nice home in a nice neighborhood and they concentrated much of their time and money on their child in an effort to allow him as many opportunities as possible.

That brings me to me, and I'm doing quite well for myself while married and raising a child (with another on the way). My wife and I already combine for close to $100,000 per year in earnings and that, of course, will only continue to increase over the years.

Stories like this are easy to find in America. With hard work, good choices, and parents that care, it's quite easy to make your way in this country. America REWARDS those that work hard, educate themselves, and pass on those ethics to their children. The one's that don't do those things usually remain in squalor and pass on that apathy to their kids, generation after generation.

You will most definitely be able to amass enough wealth to move to another country Veta, because you are smart and motivated. The United States of America is easy to navigate for people who are smart and motivated. So I congratulate you on your forthcoming success. You're EARNING it every day. Please, enjoy the spoils of your hard work and dedication. Revel in your success.