Forum
Open letter to the Kdice Community
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XxDiceyGirlxX wrote
at 12:08 AM, Monday September 24, 2007 EDT
Dear Kdice Community,
For almost 2 months I have tried to find a way to like the new version of Kdice. I tested on the test server, I have logged many games this past month and I finally have to say… this version leaves me frustrated. I get the whole poker style wagering system, but Kdice is a much more complex game. In poker, you can’t work a pair of threes into a royal flush, but in Kdice you can work a pair of three stacks into a corner and win the whole game. It’s not about the dice you are dealt in the beginning it is the way you understand the game and the strategy to make those dice work for you. In Poker – you are dealt what you are dealt. So for me, a poker style scoring system falls quite flat. It took me a while to get to this point. But yesterday, I played a game that went over 40 rounds and it was exciting… full of strategy and old-school kdice entertainment. There were allies and enemies fighting it out for 1st place. The 8v8 game was the best since August under the elo system. Something I rarely see in the new version. In the end… the only person to get points was first. A dull thud to what could have been a fantastic game. It’s a real shame that this has to happen… that games now can be completed in 5 rounds. There is no point to have a long game or to employ any sort of strategy to play. Just click, roll, and go. But that’s not the only thing that has suffered. When I started playing Kdice, I realized quickly that it was just not a game of war, but it is a game of war AND allies. The social aspect of the game was just as important to the strategy aspect. The sheer dynamic of this left the game open to players of many different skill sets. Social networking became an important factor of the game. Now it is different… There is very little community or communication… just complaints. To be successful you just grab as many points as you can as daftly as you can. I have watched rooms before logging in to see top players getting fed points. And that really saddens me. The race for first is no longer the best dice player… it’s just the best point farmer. In the old game, there were creative and extreme ways to win as well, but they were manageable and noticeable. In the new version, things are driven underground and the ugly underbelly is that the game is no longer about who is the best dice player… it is about who can figure out creative ways to grab points and with great paranoia watch others do the same thing. Now… I stumble upon people feeding each other points and endless conversations about how the new version doesn’t quite meet everyone’s expectations. Everyone is clear and unhappy with the point farming, but no one standing up and making a change. Just to be clear, I’m not putting this out to bitch about the game. I respect what Ryan has done to create and maintain the game. And I really enjoy the game and the people I have met. It’s one of the more fun games I have ever played. And Ryan, I hope you don’t take this as an attack on the new version. I would hope that you will give us a chance to voice our opinions because at the very basic level – we are all partners. You and the player community work together to make this game what it is and I would like to extend a platform for us to discuss where we are at as a community with this new version. I hope that in responding to this post, that you will forward the conversation and be honest about what you think. Whether you agree with me or not… that doesn’t matter. What’s important is that we have a voice. So, this is where I stand. I’m frustrated. How about you? |
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XCBatman wrote
at 12:11 AM, Monday September 24, 2007 EDT In response to the "Open letter to the Kdice Community":
My biggest problem with the new system is the frustration factor. Early in the month I was frustrated because I couldn’t get above 0 points. After spending the past three months on 2300 elo, I was maybe more frustrated than anyone. To me the game had become mindless attacking. On the 2k tables, a 5v4 was regarded as an extremely risky move. Now, first turn connects are routinely 5v4, 4v3, 3v2, 2v1. To me, those were foolish attacks, and the players shouldn’t be rewarded for it. I expressed my frustrations to current players, former players, even to Ryan himself. Eventually, I started to get the hang of it, and broke 100 in 7 games or so. But it still lacked the excitement of the 8v8 “luckfests†that dominated the elo system. Echoing Dicey “There is no point to have a long game or to employ any sort of strategy to play. Just click, roll, and go.†Kdice used to be about individual competition. There once was an era when rnd and X LUCK X would ninja-sit teal to sabotage each other’s games. There was such a division in kdice that I haven’t seen since. I felt myself sucked into the game, for I felt like I was part of something bigger than myself. And yet, the end of May was the most fun that I’ve ever had. Now, the top 25 seems to be filled with “lucky days†which reek of the point farmers that Diceygirl mentioned. This is not an attack on the top 25 in any way, but I’m just saying that along with the new scoring system, the social dynamic of kdice has changed. Winning used to be about strategy, political moves, and careful planning. Now it is about who can beat up on the lower tables, get one lucky game on the higher tables, leap ahead of the competition and milk the points. Winning outright isn’t good enough. You have to trick the other player into thinking that they can win. That’s the only new strategy that’s introduced with the new version. When I started playing kdice, I was inducted into the whole social aspect of the game. I learned how certain players talked so I could spot them on the lower tables, or as different names heckling me on the higher tables. I learned how to “pull a Stoudeâ€, or what a “Grun-cut†is. That aspect is gone. The game has lost its identity. It saddens me that on the top tables, winning is called “running for first.†Not because you have to race everyone to the top spot, but because it’s like winning an election. You have to have financial backers (point farmers), a committee (a time-tested pga), and an opponent (rnd). I am frustrated. -XC- Kdice presidential candidate October 2007 |
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Disasterz wrote
at 12:13 AM, Monday September 24, 2007 EDT I've posted a thread or two about what I think.
The New version was something new. It was fun. But it's not the right format for kdice. Ryan, we need a big change next month. or a switch back. I hate the fact that usually only first gets all the points and the only way to really gain points is to flag early or dominate. I don't even CARE ABOUT POINTS! The fun in this game is lacking..... |
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lucky99999 wrote
at 12:24 AM, Monday September 24, 2007 EDT Amen!!!!! The old version was fun and it was more about skill then luck. Now it has completelly changed. Id sure like 2 get the old version back ;( there were a lot more fun and a lot of games, that is hard 2 forget :) it was good old days ;)
p.s Sarah, u were the empire!!! lol |
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Inpastable wrote
at 12:37 AM, Monday September 24, 2007 EDT Yes, I'm going to have to agree. The new scoring system is interesting and new, but all in all does not seem to give fitting points to the right people. More often than not, you are at a disadvantage to play the game out as opposed to just flagging early
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Big Jumblies wrote
at 12:55 AM, Monday September 24, 2007 EDT I concur, much of the strategy has been lost in the game. Risk was a strategy game. Dicewars was a strategy game. kdice WAS a strategy game.
I feel bad saying this because I know Ryan has been working on this version since at least July, probably longer, and has been pulling his hair out making improvements and tweaks for us all month through its implementation. And I really do appreciate it as I'm sure everyone does. Ryan is just trying to make the game more enjoyable for everyone with all the work he puts in to it. I really think ELO was a lot more fun. I have been playing a lot of games thinking I would learn to like the new version and have managed the top 10. Well, as a top 10 player, I still think its not as fun as ELO was. I would rather give up my progress this month and start over with ELO and old kdice. This month there are so many "new" players in the top 25 because they are being used to shuffle points around just as DiceyGirl mentioned. Playing a 400 game is impossible for most of us because you get crushed by all the farmers in the first round. The 2000 tables always had 2 or 3 going all the time. I'm really frustrated. :( |
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Kenjamin wrote
at 1:05 AM, Monday September 24, 2007 EDT I won't reiterate what's already been said. Suffice it to say I agree with the points.
I miss the elegans simplicity of last december. I'm not saying that the changes weren't improvements because in many cases they enhanced the game and helped make it more enjoyable/challenging. However, the new format is a wholly new entity. I really miss the old, simplistic game play. It was enhanced by the introduction of domination and alterations to point distributions but this new system has really altered the entire complexion of the game. In my opinion this change as not been for the best. Disclaimer: Being fully appreciative of the fact that Ryan no doubt put many hours into devising this new game (Almost certainly due to our endless whining about the problems in the old system) I feel like a tool for whining about it because, really, it's his game; we just play it. Kenjamin |
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Kenjamin wrote
at 1:05 AM, Monday September 24, 2007 EDT Stupid typos.... disregard those...
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azala wrote
at 1:30 AM, Monday September 24, 2007 EDT I want a filter against bad players so I can enjoy playing again.
With ELO bad players stayed 1500 or 1600, mediocre players stayed 1800, and good players never left 2000. Now every 100-level game is a hodgepodge of a few good players and many bad players. I'm supposed to look forward to 400-level games which are better. But because of the exponential point spread (as opposed to the somewhat linear ELO spread) these games don't happen too often. So I can look forward to lots of 100-level games and a few 400-level games. Yuck! |
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fiero600 wrote
at 1:45 AM, Monday September 24, 2007 EDT ive got a couple of main issues here. First off...i miss the 2k community... friendships were made...and it was a relaxing place to come and see how people were. Now, 1st and 2nd place people are playing to 10 or 100 tables... another issue.... the last version had a good way of going month to month...you kept your rating but not ranking...so the elo system gave everyone a chance...without completely starting you over... now if we are completely restarted...ive wasted alot of time and will be very frustrated....if its not... no one has a chance to catch the top 3 people because they spend like 18 hours a day on this game...the other thing i miss is the strategy... i found the best strategy to win at this level, and it just seems so cruddy! All you have to do when you're in first, is keep the 2nd and 3'rd place people even, so that neither one of them flag, and at the end of the game, you get +40 and they get +1 and +2.
HOW DUMB! there best chance is to give up! i HATE playing a long game, having that nonsense pulled on ME and...flagging for 3'rd for -5! HELP RYAN! I MISS ELO!!! |
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skrumgaer wrote
at 5:16 AM, Monday September 24, 2007 EDT When we speak of "the new version of kdice", remember that Ryan made a tweak in the scoring partly into the new month (but I don't remember when). There are considerable differences in strategy in the pretweak and posttweak versions, particularly in how much time you can afford in building up a strong base in a corner before having to go on the offensive. So in discussions about the new system, compare the pretweak and posttweak new versions in addition to comparing the old and new versions. I personally found the pretweak version more savage (and more fun) than the posttweak.
A way to assess overall attitude about the tweak is to look at the graphs on the profile pages of players that you care about. Look for number of games played before and after, or whether a player has given up altogether after the tweak. |